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Old 11-19-2002, 03:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap
we want peace? we have to learn to live in harmony with other ways of living NOT trying to assimilate everyone into the United States



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I don't think we'll ever have peace. WE can't even have peace within nations, nevertheless, between them. Ex: Jerusalem, N Ireland. Geez man, people in Alberta hate people in Ontario

While peace is a lovely thought, it is not a foreseeable (sp?) reality.
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Old 11-19-2002, 06:00 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Basstrap
It's true, people here in the west think our model will work for everybody but it isn't the truth

if anything, attempts to capitalize and "democrasize" the third world only leads to exploitation of the poor there. Sweatshops being an example. Business people see these places as cheap places to set up and the politicians in the third world are so corrupt it makes ours look like Jesus.

THe more we try to impose our systems on them the more the arab countries and other countires will hate us.
It's people like sting, blinded by the government and by the holy "capitalism" model, who don't understand why they all hate us so much over there anyway, and that propogating our view of how the world "should" be only leads to more hate.

we want peace? we have to learn to live in harmony with other ways of living NOT trying to assimilate everyone into the United States
Well said. Totally agree.

Angela
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Old 11-19-2002, 06:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap

THe more we try to impose our systems on them the more the arab countries and other countires will hate us.
It's people like sting, blinded by the government and by the holy "capitalism" model, who don't understand why they all hate us so much over there anyway, and that propogating our view of how the world "should" be only leads to more hate.
So how, pray tell, should countries like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, North Korea, etc. be run?
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Old 11-19-2002, 08:13 PM   #19
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Hiphop,

Economic development has yet to be correctly applied under the right conditions in many of the countries where you state such policies have failed. Many of the countries of Sub-Sarahan Africa are not resource rich and the first world does not get virtually all of its resources from the third world as you seem to suggest.

Arguements may have been made about India 40 years ago that it would develop, but in cases like India with a massive population already, it will take much more than the past 40 years to develop. India has yet to fully expand trade with the west to an extent that would be helpful. Both India and Pakistan have very little trade with the outside world, but this is changing.

You ignore countries like South Korea, Tawain, Singapore, and others that have made huge progress over the past 50 years.

If I was in India I would be concerned of the lack of trade with the west and concerned about the governments programs to prevent starvation. In addition to of course being worried about Islamic terrorist and possible war with Pakistan over its inability to stop terrorism in Kashmire.

Bottom line is that its going to take much more time than simply the past 40 years. In addition, the examples you cite do not constitute as a failure of western capitalism and democracy. This is going to be a long process but it will eventually be successful.

150 years ago, Ireland was as poor as any country you want to list in the third world. Today Ireland has a higher standard of living than the country that contributed to many of its problems 150 years ago, the United Kingdom. I was in Northern Ireland this past January and talked to many people there about the conflict. Most of them said the main reason for the decreasing tensions in Northern Ireland from where they were in the early 70s was the economic success of the whole Island in recent years. Unemployment of 30% was reduced to less 7% over most of Ireland including the North. This country has come a long way since my Great Great Grand Parents left there to come to the USA because of the poor conditions in the mid 1800s. It is an amazing and exciting place to live and work now. My parents and I are heading to Ireland next week for Thanksgiving, and I am sure my parents will be amazed by how much has changed.
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Old 11-19-2002, 08:53 PM   #20
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Basstrap and Moonlit Angel,


"It's people like sting, blinded by the government and by the holy "capitalism" model, who don't understand why they all hate us so much over there anyway, and that propogating our view of how the world "should" be only leads to more hate."

Really? I'd be careful about making unbased assumptions about other people like this. You don't know me, or where I get my information from, or my education. Unless you want unbased assumptions made about you, I'd suggest you refrain from making them about others.
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Old 11-19-2002, 09:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


So how, pray tell, should countries like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, North Korea, etc. be run?
you think we need to show them our way and that it is for the better?

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Be rather ironic if a flame war started on a thread on peace on a U2 board.
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Old 11-19-2002, 11:07 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


you think we need to show them our way and that it is for the better?

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Be rather ironic if a flame war started on a thread on peace on a U2 board.
!
Whatever way is best for the people of those nations, they damn sure aren't going to discover it for themselves, what with the government suppressing/imprisoning/liquidating all dissent to their respective reigns.

Ok, so this is a broad, unqualified statement--the sort that I despise. But you get the idea.
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