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Old 03-30-2007, 04:50 PM   #121
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^ But surely the only way to get equality is to drag the dominant group down?
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Old 03-30-2007, 04:51 PM   #122
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^ But surely the only way to get equality is to drag the dominant group down?
Well, that would probably be the socialist point of view, yes.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:00 PM   #123
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Feminism is essentially built on a tissue of lies.

In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.

However, I wouldn't expect the self-regarding navel-gazing 'liberal' coterie on here to realise that.


that's a big statement, self-flattering insults aside.

can you unpack this?
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:12 PM   #124
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Men are discriminated against?

Are you saying that if everyone were treated equally and were hired and promoted purely on their talents, males would still occupy the vast majority of top tier positions, and would be promoted faster and to better positions?

Or that since females are starting to penetrate the top tier more and more, that it must be because males are being discriminated against?
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:15 PM   #125
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Originally posted by Irvine511
that's a big statement, self-flattering insults aside.

can you unpack this?
(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

(If the situation was the reverse, i.e. if men had a higher life expectancy, imagine the outcry and demands that something be done to rectify the situation)


(2) Jobs

Many employers are now actively discriminating against men, and have been for some time.

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)


(3) Education

It appears that many top universities are actively discriminating in favour of female applicants, particularly in engineering and science courses.


(4) Paternity

The abundance of evidence from the family law courts in many Western countries, especially the UK and Ireland, testifies to nothing short of an active, prolonged and vindictive assault on fathers' rights.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:39 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
[B]

(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.
This might just be the most ignorant statement on FYM. First of all, how do you account for the fact that men choose to participate in activities which shorten their lifespan in numbers much higher than women? How much of the death rate can be attributed to smoking alone (significant difference in rate)? How much of the lifespan can be attributed to genetic differences (are telomeres different in females? what about proportion of body fat and the role it plays?)? What about the fact that women are more compliant with doctors orders and have higher rates of annual or at least regular physical exams (again, something voluntary)?

I could go on and on. But CLEARLY there is discrimination.
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:32 PM   #127
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This might just be the most ignorant statement on FYM.
I demand a recount.
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:57 PM   #128
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Originally posted by INDY500


I demand a recount.
You might want to reconsider your demand.
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:59 PM   #129
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Originally posted by financeguy
In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.

Poor thing. You've only gotten to run the show for several thousand years. Now that we gals want a fair share of the pie, it hurts a little.
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Old 03-30-2007, 07:06 PM   #130
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Originally posted by financeguy
In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.
This just occured to me: you should be supporting an equal rights amendment because your rights would be as equally protected as mine. And before your boxers get all wadded up, go back and actually read the full text of the actual amendment. It doesn't mention women; it mentions sex. Which also means MEN.
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:40 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)
You mean a woman can become a mother and not have to worry about losing her job? Just like a man doesn't have to give a second thought about losing his job if he becomes a father??

GASP! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO??
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:43 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

(If the situation was the reverse, i.e. if men had a higher life expectancy, imagine the outcry and demands that something be done to rectify the situation)


(2) Jobs

Many employers are now actively discriminating against men, and have been for some time.

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)


(3) Education

It appears that many top universities are actively discriminating in favour of female applicants, particularly in engineering and science courses.


(4) Paternity

The abundance of evidence from the family law courts in many Western countries, especially the UK and Ireland, testifies to nothing short of an active, prolonged and vindictive assault on fathers' rights.


Both sides face discrimination of some sort.

But let's see:


Health:

Viagra is covered under insurance. Fertility treatments are not. Oftentimes you will find health issues focused on men's quality of life and ignoring women's. Many of the health strides made by women are because women banded together and forced those strides. Prior to, testing was usually done on men (white men) in areas such as heart disease, etc., ignoring the different physiology and making assumptions without comprehensive testing. Men haven't often been in the position of demanding something because they have so often been given it as their due. They were the test target.

There is as much focus on prostrate cancer as there is on breast cancer.

Jobs:

I assume you have never seen men allowed to get away with inferior job performance. In US, we call it old boy's network or golden parachute. Or often political appointees (See old boy's network).

There has been a significant drive to include men in parental leave, offering the same guarantees. Most men are choosing not to take it. Now I will agree with you that most men don't take it because it would probably adversely affect them with their companies even if allowed. So I will give you that women are much more protected in that.

Education: I don't know the numbers, but I would guess that the women are being favored because their numbers are so low in representation because men were artificially favored for so long. I would also think that it was to encourage young women to study science and math more by giving them more role models.
We had a thread a while back about a transgendered scientist who received high peer marks as a man and considerably lower peer marks after he transgendered into a woman (from the people who did not know about the transgendering). I think that women may be favored here to dispel an ugly stereotype.

Paternity: Yeah, guys are fucked unfairly regarding custody. In US, though, some changes are being made (because of men banding together) to increase father custody which is having some effect and I think that is a good thing even if it's one of the few things women are dominant in.

So women basically win handsdown on the issue of motherhood.
Yay! Unfortunately, I'm not a mother. So my friends and I are fucked. I won't speak for any place other than the US, but it is the US Constitution that is the thread topic.

Does it take so little to threaten you? I wouldn't have thought so. If one sex is truly dominant after both being given equal opportunity and circumstance and expectations and treatment, and that dominance is based on objective review of ability and if that ability is germane, then so be it. You want your best and brightest? Many of them will be women. Many of them will be men. But we really don't know. We do know that men are often afforded more respect just because they are men (as women are often afforded more sympathy because they are women) Women are niched more often than men, sometimes by their own acquiescence. I won't argue that. And if women don't take advantage of the opportunities afforded to us, then it's on us.

I feel bad for any man superceded by someone of either sex less competent than he is. I also feel bad for any woman superceded by someone less competent than she is. It's the perceptions I question.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:33 PM   #133
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what is certainly very true, ERA or not, is that women -- in particular, white women -- have always been the #1 beneficiaries of Affirmative Action programs.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:44 PM   #134
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True.
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:53 PM   #135
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Life for men in Ireland must be a living hell.

Don't forget that women make more money than men in the adult film industry too. It's outrageous. They should be put in their place.
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