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Old 03-31-2007, 06:18 PM   #151
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Originally posted by martha
I doubt it. Form other posts in FYM and other parts of Interference, I know that FG has some serious trouble with women. From what I can tell, he truly does believe we are out to get him.
I think you should focus on the debate, rather than engage in amateurish attempts at psychoanalysis.
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:27 PM   #152
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I think you should focus on the debate, rather than engage in amateurish attempts at psychoanalysis.
You're right; let's refocus. I agree that men need more equitable child custody/visitation rights, but like Mr. V, I doubt your paranoid reasoning.
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:36 PM   #153
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Just curious, who got custody of the kids prior to the extremist feminist intervention?
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:45 PM   #154
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Just curious, who got custody of the kids prior to the extremist feminist intervention?
Chicks.
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:55 PM   #155
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Same in Ireland?
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:56 PM   #156
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never mind
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:58 PM   #157
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I think it is helpful, when one criticizes one poster's contribution for a perceived lack of evidential back-up, that one actually provides some evidence for one's point of view oneself, wouldn't you?
This is rich coming from you


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Discrimination against fathers by the family law courts is very well attested to, very well researched by objective observers and has been shown in numerous studies.

There are numerous examples of studies which show this on the internet and in the publishing media, I am surprised you are not aware of this.

My own personal view is that this discrimination is due to infiltration by extremist feminism of the family law court structure and of the profession of social work. That is just a personal opinion, mind - but it is pretty unarguable, frankly, that such discrimination takes place.
This doesn't even make sense, how would extreme feminism be a cause of this, if anything it would have the opposite effect.

Vincent said it best, yes there are many fathers who find it difficult, but it has absolutely nothing to do with your reasons.

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I attach a link to just one website which deals with the issue - there are hundreds of others.

http://www.coeffic.demon.co.uk/
Are you serious? That webstite is a joke.

It's as paranoid, and sloppy with their conclusions as your posts. The suicide rate is higher in men, so it must be discrimination? WTF?
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:02 PM   #158
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It was kind of an interesting website...I was expecting something more ....um....objective. It kind of undermines the credibility of a serious discussion. I'm assuming you're taking this issue too seriously to be engaging in satire.
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:04 PM   #159
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never mind

I figure chicks there too but I didn't want to assume.
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:48 PM   #160
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http://www.coeffic.demon.co.uk/
I hope that is meant to be funny. Women have been treated like crap until recently and continue to be abused all over the world yet after a couple of decades of supposed favoritism, it's time for men to revolt. Gimme a break!!

I think men should be glad women outlive us. Who else is gonna wipe the dribble from our face and change our diapers when we are 80?
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:01 PM   #161
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
Just curious, who got custody of the kids prior to the extremist feminist intervention?
Women, in every Western legal system I'm at all familiar with--and assuming whatever exactly 'extremist feminism' refers to doesn't predate the 1970s. In British law, for example, the decline of the previous practice of automatically granting fathers custody of their 'property' (i.e., children) following a divorce can be traced to the so-called 'tender years doctrine' underlying the Custody Of Infants Act (1873)--though technically this only guaranteed divorced mothers 'access' since, like children, women were legally defined as chattel rather than persons at the time. The Married Women's Property Act (1884) and Guardianship of Infants Act (1886) established that women were legally separate persons and as such, qualified to be awarded sole guardianship of children--which they tended to be from there on out, provided they had access to adequate financial resources (which of course most women didn't). Later reforms in the Progressive Era laid the foundations for the modern child welfare system by developing the concept of the 'worthy mother,' i.e., the woman who lacked such resources following a divorce but was deserving of legal and social assistance to enable her to keep her children. US family law followed a similar trajectory, though generally lagging behind the UK by a decade or so. Mid-to-late twentieth century feminists actually on the whole rejected special preferences for women in divorce and custody, though their focus was on rights for women in the labor market, not the family. It was during that period that 'the best interests of the child' (as opposed to automatic preference for the mother) began to emerge as the standard for awarding custody, though the tendency to favor mothers persisted--more on less on the sometimes unwarranted assumption that the mother had performed the largest share of caretaker duties up until that point, therefore it would cause the least disruption to the child to remain with her. On the other hand, based on 1990s *US* data at least (the 'Massachusetts Study'), when divorced fathers do actively seek custody they get sole custody about 30% of the time, and joint custody about 45% of the time--though it should be noted that this study didn't address sociocultural and legal factors which might discourage men from seeking custody in the first place (and most don't; overall, the number of men who got either sole or joint custody amounted to less then 8%), nor did it address the results for unwed fathers (whom the scantier available data indicates fare considerably worse in the courts). At any rate, while this and other studies certainly suggest some persisting bias in favor of mothers in custody law, it makes little sense historically to attribute this to 'extremist feminism.'
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:03 PM   #162
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Ok, I've changed my mind. I'm going to start a petition for a men's equality amendment.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:28 PM   #163
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Originally posted by yolland
it makes little sense historically to attribute this to 'extremist feminism.'
Bringing facts into the debate isn't going to help any. Facts just muddy the waters.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:35 PM   #164
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Are you serious? That webstite is a joke.

It's as paranoid, and sloppy with their conclusions as your posts. The suicide rate is higher in men, so it must be discrimination? WTF?

When the evidence doesn't fit their view of the world, I guess the default position of 'progressives' is to dismiss uncomfortable facts as 'a joke'.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:47 PM   #165
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When the evidence doesn't fit their view of the world, I guess the default position of 'progressives' is to dismiss uncomfortable facts as 'a joke'.
What about when the evidence doesn't fit paranoid conspiracy theorists' views? What about yolland's uncomfortable facts?
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