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Old 08-21-2006, 05:19 PM   #16
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Originally posted by martha


wtf?

Who decides then?
A rational democratic republic ought to be able to decide... the Congress can pass a law forbidding religious organizations from indoctrinating their members with principles or ideologies that promote the oppression or anhilation of their perceived "other." For example, it's against the law to kill yet it's okay for hamas and hezbollah to teach--brainwash--its followers that it's honorable to kill in the name of their god...and they are allowed to do this because why? because it says so in their "scriptures"? I'm merely saying that a law should be made forbidding religions from using scripture that incites violence such as this, from being taught. They can teach any other mumbo jumbo they want, but when they cross the line into denying the human rights of others, they need to be stopped.
Granted, the woman being fired from her sunday school position seems silly in comparison, but when religious organizations are allowed to use their "scripture" to justify any form of discrimination it's a slippery slope into religious anarchy.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:32 PM   #17
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A rational democratic republic ought to be able to decide... the Congress can pass a law forbidding religious organizations from indoctrinating their members with principles or ideologies that promote the oppression or anhilation of their perceived "other."
Wow. So much for the Constitution where you live.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:47 PM   #18
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What good is a constitution that doesn't protect its people from religious fanatics?
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:51 PM   #19
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You're going to have to give better reasons for advocating completely elimninating a key component of the Constitution.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:11 PM   #20
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How am I advocating for completely eliminating a key component of the Constitution? I'm allowing for freedom of religion. I'm not saying religions can't teach that Alpha Centauri is the right eye of god, they just can't advocate "death to the infidel". The first amendment protects free speech up to the point that it incites violence, so why not freedom of religion up to the point where it advocates death or discrimination against their perceived other.
Personally I'm sick of religion hiding under the umbrella of free speech. They ought not be allowed to preach hatred in any form. I don't want to shred the constitution (that's bush's job), i merely want laws protecting people from religion if that religion is advocating violence or discrimination against perceived others.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:16 PM   #21
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They ought not be allowed to preach hatred in any form.
Who gets to decide what violates your law? You mentioned Congress. Do you really want this Congress to decide what religions can preach? What if they decide to outlaw whatever it is you believe? You yourself mentioned the "slippery slope." You're on one right now when you start clamoring for Congressional control of what religions may preach.


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i merely want laws protecting people from religion if that religion is advocating violence or discrimination against perceived others.
People have choices about what religion they want to follow. People also have protected speech in the country. You claim to support that, but apparently only if you agree with the speech. How Bush-like of you.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:22 PM   #22
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You yourself mentioned the "slippery slope." You're on one right now when you start clamoring for Congressional control of what religions may preach.



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Old 08-21-2006, 06:37 PM   #23
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Again, I'm not saying that Congress should make a law forbidding the mainly harmless mumbo jumbo that is religion, it's when they cross the line and advocate/praise/pressure its members to KILL those who are "not them" that rule of law should intercede. I want secular laws that protect human life against religious FANATICISM.
And unfortunately, there are many in the world who do not get to choose their religion...in Islam if you are born muslim you stay muslim or die. I guess you have no problem with the oppression of your fellow woman? I guess it's okay that millions of women are killed by their father or brothers for getting raped...guess you've never seen the images of women buried up to their necks with a bag over their head whilst being pelted with stones for breaking religious law.
The Bush remark was a nice jab--ouch!
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:55 PM   #24
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Originally posted by JCR
Again, I'm not saying that Congress should make a law forbidding the mainly harmless mumbo jumbo that is religion, it's when they cross the line and advocate/praise/pressure its members to KILL those who are "not them" that rule of law should intercede. I want secular laws that protect human life against religious FANATICISM.
And unfortunately, there are many in the world who do not get to choose their religion...in Islam if you are born muslim you stay muslim or die. I guess you have no problem with the oppression of your fellow woman? I guess it's okay that millions of women are killed by their father or brothers for getting raped...guess you've never seen the images of women buried up to their necks with a bag over their head whilst being pelted with stones for breaking religious law.
The Bush remark was a nice jab--ouch!
You do realize Congress only write laws for the US don't you? You are clouding many different issues here.
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:55 PM   #25
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No. I'm retarded BonoVOX. (You are pretty suave with the underhanded ad hominen attack though.) I was responding to martha's notion that I'm proposing a law that would damage the constitution. It got "cloudy" when martha claimed I was advocating something unconstitutional.
That said, you also realize that what the US does (the laws it makes) has an effect on the rest of the citizens of the world do you not? The french have realized too late that islamic fundalmentalism reeks havoc on democracy as do all extremist views found in religious dogma. I know it seems I'm picking on the muslim religion, but I'm talking about all organized religions. None of them should be allowed to preach doctrines that advocate violence or oppress a particular group of people based on their interpretation of "scripture."
The original pastor who fired the "church lady"is punishing her for HIS interpretation of scripture. If the ACLU doesn't step in she gets reduced to the lowly female that he and his literal interpretation perceive her as. This is the slippery slope. basically, I'm sick of people using religion and their interpretation of "scripture" as an excuse for the inhumane treatment of others.
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Old 08-21-2006, 10:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCR
basically, I'm sick of people using religion and their interpretation of "scripture" as an excuse for the inhumane treatment of others.
This exact thing has been going on since BEFORE the time of Jesus & I don't see it stopping anytime soon. It's the nature of the human species to find ways to feel superior to others - and subjugate those 'others' to punishment suitable for their 'crimes'. I don't think it's right, but I don't see how to stop it either. I can tell you this though - bringing Congress into the mix ain't the way to stop it!
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Old 08-21-2006, 10:37 PM   #27
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I was responding to martha's notion that I'm proposing a law that would damage the constitution. It got "cloudy" when martha claimed I was advocating something unconstitutional.
Well you advocating something unconstitutional.

As far as advocating violence we do have laws against that.
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCR
Again, I'm not saying that Congress should make a law forbidding the mainly harmless mumbo jumbo that is religion, it's when they cross the line and advocate/praise/pressure its members to KILL those who are "not them" that rule of law should intercede. I want secular laws that protect human life against religious FANATICISM.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [i]prohibiting the free exercise thereof[/]; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Here's your Constitution for ya. My italics.

Again, who gets to decide what's acceptable and what isn't? Be careful here; many like you have advocated for oppressive change, and then had the tables turned on them. You might want to limit your arguments to the US. You seem to really have it in for Muslim fundamentalists in other countries.
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:43 PM   #29
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good or bad, the US has room for religious crazies; they are as entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as much as anyone else. just so long as they don't break our laws or infringe upon anone else's rights.
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:37 AM   #30
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Incidents like this also are destructive in that they can drive people away from Scripture instead of drawing people to Scripture (even the passages with which we struggle). I’m afraid that the actions of Rev. Timothy LaBouf will act as a stumbling block that will result in further misapplication or rejection of Scripture.
And that's a big part of why 'outsiders' I suppose you'd say, do not understand how this gels in Christianity. Just another way of convoluting and contradicting it's beliefs in things.
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