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Old 09-30-2005, 12:17 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Irvine511
to use race as the basis for lowering the crime rate is a racist notion; to use socio-economic status as a basis for lowering the crime rate (and, yes, socio-economic status is often "race-ed") isn't a racist notion because it points to quantifiable factors as reasons for higher crime rates and within that it is implicit that it isn't race that causes one to commit crimes but where one is born.

as Bennett stated it, it is race that makes one more likely to commit crimes. that is a racist notion.

did he misspeak? probably. does this indicate a lack of awareness? yes.
Are statistics showing a higher rate of crime among African Americans racist?
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:23 PM   #17
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bennett's a toolbag.

crime rate has nothing to do with race... something that many people in america fail to realize. it's not that they're black that's making them committ crime... it's that they are poor. it's that they are so desperate to get out of a shit situation that they turn to the only thing they can think of to take care of them and theres. get rid of every "minority" in america and some other group of lillywhite poor people will take their place.

a man allegedly as smart as bennett should know this. in the early history of our nation, when blacks were still slaves, the crime rate was higher than it is now, that's for damn sure. and again, it was largely the poor who turned to crime, because they had nothing else. then it was largely the irish... very much the white man.

as long as we have people in power who continue to believe that this is a race thing, we will continue to hear things like this and see things like we saw in new orleans.

and it's not a republican/democrat thing... it's a rich white man thing.
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:45 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
bennett's a toolbag.

crime rate has nothing to do with race... something that many people in america fail to realize. it's not that they're black that's making them committ crime... it's that they are poor. it's that they are so desperate to get out of a shit situation that they turn to the only thing they can think of to take care of them and theres. get rid of every "minority" in america and some other group of lillywhite poor people will take their place.

a man allegedly as smart as bennett should know this. in the early history of our nation, when blacks were still slaves, the crime rate was higher than it is now, that's for damn sure. and again, it was largely the poor who turned to crime, because they had nothing else. then it was largely the irish... very much the white man.

as long as we have people in power who continue to believe that this is a race thing, we will continue to hear things like this and see things like we saw in new orleans.

and it's not a republican/democrat thing... it's a rich white man thing.




well said.
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:38 PM   #19
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The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

"The President believes the comments were not appropriate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
crime rate has nothing to do with race... something that many people in america fail to realize. it's not that they're black that's making them committ crime... it's that they are poor.
Exactly! And Bennett would agree with you. Bennett was disagreeing with the caller who was saying that more abortions would lower crime. Since, the majority of crimes are committed by blacks, Bennett turned the caller's logic around and asked if therefore blacks should have more abortions. He was demonstrating the absurdity of the caller's argument. He was NOT suggesting that crime should be lowered by an increase in black abortions.

Bennett may be many things, but he is not a racist.
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:07 PM   #21
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Exactly! And Bennett would agree with you. Bennett was disagreeing with the caller who was saying that more abortions would lower crime. Since, the majority of crimes are committed by blacks, Bennett turned the caller's logic around and asked if therefore blacks should have more abortions. He was demonstrating the absurdity of the caller's argument. He was NOT suggesting that crime should be lowered by an increase in black abortions.

Bennett may be many things, but he is not a racist.


firstly, i don't think the majority of crimes are committed by blacks. i think a disproportionate amount of crimes are committed by blacks, but not the majority. there's also the fact that a white jury is more likely to convict a black person, and to sentence that person to a harsher penalty.

that aside, the racism in Bennett's statement lies not with his logic, but lies in pointing to race *alone* as the determining factor in committing crime, and not to social factors like poverty, unemployment, broken homes, etc. as i noted, he was paraphrasing the argument in _Freakanomics_, but the authors of that book never used race, the used unwed mothers and children born into poverty.
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
that aside, the racism in Bennett's statement lies not with his logic, but lies in pointing to race *alone* as the determining factor in committing crime, and not to social factors like poverty, unemployment, broken homes, etc.
Do you honestly think that Bennett believes that race *alone* is the determening factor for crime? Having read his books and listened to his show, I think he would say the break down of basic morality is the major cause of crime in the U.S., along with poverty, unemployment, broken homes etc.
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
that aside, the racism in Bennett's statement lies not with his logic, but lies in pointing to race *alone* as the determining factor in committing crime, and not to social factors like poverty, unemployment, broken homes, etc. as i noted, he was paraphrasing the argument in _Freakanomics_, but the authors of that book never used race, the used unwed mothers and children born into poverty.
When did Bennett point to race *alone* as a determining factor in committing crime??

He didn't say anything like:

Quote:
i think a disproportionate amount of crimes are committed by blacks
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


When did Bennett point to race *alone* as a determining factor in committing crime??

He didn't say anything like:



he said:

Quote:
But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down
where does he refer to anything other than race as an indicator of crime?

also, as regards to my statement, i used the words "i think" because i don't have statistics on hand to prove my point; but, i do think that statistics would bear out my claim. and that african-americans are disproportionately poor, etc., and all the things that i've expounded upon in other threads.

of course, Bennett basically believes that people are poor because they lack his moral fiber. but that's another story ...
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
When did Bennett point to race *alone* as a determining factor in committing crime??


This whole "controversy" is nothing more than a knee jerk response to Bennett's comment. It's a non story blown up by the media and perpetuated by Bennett's oponents.
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:57 PM   #26
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Originally posted by MaxFisher




This whole "controversy" is nothing more than a knee jerk response to Bennett's comment. It's a non story blown up by the media and perpetuated by Bennett's oponents.


see my post above, and that answers NBC question.

as for the story, yes, there are far more important things to worry about.

but when a man writes a best selling book called _The Death of Outrage_ and trumpets about personal morality and it's decline as the reason why we have poor people (not, you know, because of Republican tax cuts or other rapacious economic policies) and *then* turns out to have a massive gambling problem, he sets himself up for karmic retribution.

it's called hypocrisy, and that's the story.
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:40 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Irvine511
but when a man writes a best selling book called _The Death of Outrage_ and trumpets about personal morality and it's decline as the reason why we have poor people (not, you know, because of Republican tax cuts or other rapacious economic policies) and *then* turns out to have a massive gambling problem, he sets himself up for karmic retribution.

it's called hypocrisy, and that's the story.
An ad hominem tactic.

Simply because Benett has observed and commented on a moral decline in the U.S. does not mean he must now lead an infallible existence.

However, unfortunately for Bennett, he does lose credibility and respect which no doubt pleases his opponents.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:25 PM   #28
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You know this country is being brainwashed when we have people defending Benett. The man's a waste of written and spoken word.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:31 PM   #29
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


An ad hominem tactic.

Simply because Benett has observed and commented on a moral decline in the U.S. does not mean he must now lead an infallible existence.

However, unfortunately for Bennett, he does lose credibility and respect which no doubt pleases his opponents.


tactic?

you asked why his comments would generate such contraversy.

i gave you the answer. same thing with Rush Limbaugh and his drug addictions.

and if you take into account Bennett's hysterics regarding the whole blow job fiasco, it makes him look like even more of a hypocritical blowhard.

however, if we were to take this a few steps further, i agree with you in a sense. i don't expect perfection from my political leaders; in fact, one thing i like about Bush was he said that when he was young and irresponsible he was young and irresponsible and refused to answer questions about his cocaine abuse. did he snort lines? well, obviously. however, that has *nothing* to do with whether or not he'd be an effective leader. Clinton having extramarital affairs has nothing to do with whether or not he's a good president. what's become poisonous is a public that demands some sort of idea of perfection from their leaders, a pefection that has *never* existed and was only possible to create in the past due to the lack of media scrutiny. do you think JFK would be president today? FDR? even Lincoln (who slept with a man for 5 years while a young lawyer and had admirals visit him in the white house whenever Mary Todd was away?)

it is precisely the Bill Bennetts of the world that have made politics about a highly, highly subjective and self-serving definition of "morality" that is ultimately self-defeating because they apply a standard to their leaders that they themselves -- nor *anyone* else -- ever live up to. the result is that politics becomes about self-destruction, and leaders are not selected for their governing ability but for their ability to be effectively presented to the media for public consumption.

and it is the "morals and values" crowd who are most to blame for this culture and for the now sad fact that perception, not performance, is what now matters.

let's drop the outrage at the fact that powerful men have sex with younger women. let's drop the outrage that privileged white boys snort cocaine and drink too much. let's drop the outrage that fat radio hosts might be succeptible to myriad addictions.

let's drop outrage altogther. let's demand *ability*.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You know this country is being brainwashed when we have people defending Benett. The man's a waste of written and spoken word.


Always a great approach....Tell people you disagree with that they're brainwashed.
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