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Old 11-15-2004, 04:37 PM   #16
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There will be no draft.
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Old 11-16-2004, 05:12 AM   #17
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I wonder how many are actually going to leave... And don't come to Europe! In most countries it's not that much better (in Belgium one of the biggest political parties is a right-wing one if there were elections now, in the Netherlands the attacks on islamic targets are going on and on...).
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Old 11-16-2004, 07:25 AM   #18
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
There will be no draft.

hmmmmm. you're probably right, but it seems difficult to understand how the Bush administration can accomplish all it wants without more troops. and if there were a legitimate crisis in, say, North Korea that required significant American involvement ... it's not too far-fetched an idea.
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Old 11-16-2004, 08:10 AM   #19
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I know two people, both gay men who don't know each other, who are moving to Canada this month. They both have jobs, relationships, etc. in Canada and their plans have been in the works long before the election, but one of the main reasons is the political climate here. I don't blame them. If I were gay and had the means, I would seriously look into moving to Canada. I can't think of a good reason not to, actually.
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Old 11-16-2004, 08:49 AM   #20
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Oh, gosh, if I were gay, in a relationship and had the right financial situation I'd investigate Canada too. I have a couple of gay friends who are mates, they live in a small town in Alabama and they're managing just fine aside from griping about the election results. They are self-employed, one is a florist and the other is a caterer, and they do alot of stuff together like weddings and stuff. It's kind of ironic that they are in the "marriage business".
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Old 11-16-2004, 08:56 AM   #21
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Originally posted by verte76
Oh, gosh, if I were gay, in a relationship and had the right financial situation I'd investigate Canada too. I have a couple of gay friends who are mates, they live in a small town in Alabama and they're managing just fine aside from griping about the election results. They are self-employed, one is a florist and the other is a caterer, and they do alot of stuff together like weddings and stuff. It's kind of ironic that they are in the "marriage business".

another reason for gay marriage: who could throw a more fabulous wedding than two gay guys?!?!?!?!
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:01 AM   #22
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There will be no draft.
Have you noticed the obvious reduction of military ads to hit the air since the onset of the war? all of those commercials luring the kids with College fund education, etc.

Now, the only regular advertiser is The Marines; I haven't seen an Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard ads in quite a while....
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:56 AM   #23
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part of an Op-Ed in the Washington Post today, and one of the more sober summations of why many people probably do want to leave the United States. Not because of Bush, per say, but because of exactly how the Bush campaign went about winning:

Here's what Republicans of conscience have to understand about the machinations of Karl Rove and company. Fear isn't some emotion that can be easily bottled back up after it's been -- viciously -- unleashed. It isn't a once-every-four-years vehicle that can be wheeled out for a few months, then stowed back in the garage to be retooled for the next election cycle. Encouraging fundamentalist preachers to pound their pulpits and inveigh against gay people has consequences. It puts men and women in communities across this country at personal and professional risk. There's nothing more despicable than creating a phony political issue (just how many gay couples are clamoring for marriage certificates in the state of Ohio, anyhow?) and preying on people's prejudices.

So now it's up to discerning Republicans to wrestle with this quandary: You won all right, but at what cost? What happened to the party that once shared Abraham Lincoln's faith in the "better angels of our nature"? ...

"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid," Lincoln wrote in the years leading up to the Civil War. "As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except Negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."

There are a lot of Republicans troubled by their party's exploitation of contemporary know-nothingism. You know who you are. And before your party's degeneracy is complete, you ought to do something about it. Because camouflaging the fear and loathing of gay people as "moral values" isn't the base alloy of hypocrisy. It's hypocrisy itself.
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:01 PM   #24
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The writer of this op-ed piece assumes (and essentially bases the entire piece on the notion) that fear drove voters to elect GWB.

Perhaps, just consider, that voters are rational people and had a rational basis for voting for Bush.

To bad this falls into the category of false generalizations that a fear of terrorism and a hatred of gays led to the election of GWB.
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The writer of this op-ed piece assumes (and essentially bases the entire piece on the notion) that fear drove voters to elect GWB.

Perhaps, just consider, that voters are rational people and had a rational basis for voting for Bush.

To bad this falls into the category of false generalizations that a fear of terrorism and a hatred of gays led to the election of GWB.

i think you're missing the point. it makes no such generalizations about the motives of all the Bush voters, but it does say that to play upon fear as one element of the campaign -- which Rove surely did via churches in Ohio and below-the-radar grassroots campigning -- is exceptionally dangerous precisely because playing upon fears of a small (and traditionally despised) minority -- whether or not one actually votes upon them -- creates a palpably less safe environment. already, moralists like James Dobson and William Bennett are demanding their pound of flesh in the legislation of morals as payback for their role in helping GWB get elected. surely the Bush campaign wouldn't have proposed the FMA (or, to address your 2nd point in the last sentence) had Cheney warn of nuclear attacks if Kerry were elected if they didn't think these would be winning campaign strategies?

further, even if your typical Bush voter didn't vote on fear, the campaign used fear as part of their message and thusly changed the climate in the country.



i'll repost the most essential part of the op-ed:

"Fear isn't some emotion that can be easily bottled back up after it's been -- viciously -- unleashed. It isn't a once-every-four-years vehicle that can be wheeled out for a few months, then stowed back in the garage to be retooled for the next election cycle. Encouraging fundamentalist preachers to pound their pulpits and inveigh against gay people has consequences. It puts men and women in communities across this country at personal and professional risk."
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:53 AM   #26
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Oh, how Gay!

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
.....another reason for Gay marriage: who could throw a more fabulous wedding than two gay guys?!?!?!?!
Especially when one Gay male is a caterer and the other Gay male is a florist!! U just can't beat it -- unless U can add that the best man is a hairdresser and the male maid of honor is a seamstress.


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