Will The Olympics be packed with US patriotism?

[Olofski]

In two days the biggest sporting event of the year(after the World Cup in football in Japan/Korea) will take place: The Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.

I?m really looking forward to this, and I think it will be good games.

But I think that it will be packed with US-patriotism, wich I would really really hate. The September 11th attacks, was really terrible and a sign of evil. But there comes a point when the American patriotism gets to big. I really hope that the Olympic Committee have the brains and guts to say no to too much propaganda. The world is not a oneparty state.

I don?t want to see the same orgie in nationalism as the world saw in Moscow 1980.

The columnists in Swedish newspapers advice us to load up with a pack of "puking-bags" for the opening-ceremony. Hope this is not true, but I can honestly say that I would not be surprised if that will be the case.

People around the world are tired of hearing about how great USA are and how united they stand. Everyone doesn?t think of USA as the greatest country in the world!!! These games are not made for the American people, they are made for the people all over the world. So please let us see the games without feeling that we are forced to love USA.

Please let?s make this the best games ever, by not trying to show the world how great America thinks she is.

Good Luck Salt Lake City 2002!

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways

 

[Vorsprung]

LA 1984: USA!!! USA!!!
Atlanta 1996: USA!! USA!!
SLC 2002: USA!!!!!!! USA!!!!!!!!

Thank god Americans usually don't win that many medals at the Winter Games

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Vorsprung durch Technik

 

[DrTeeth]

The only thing I've heard is that they are going to raise the torn up flag from the WTC.
I indeed hope people will not abuse the games for their propaganda and it would be adviced for the US Olympic Commity to be on their best behaviour because it could take a while before the games will be organised in the US again.


[This message has been edited by DrTeeth (edited 02-07-2002).]

 

[zoomerang II]

well you are right and wrong.

Americans have the right to believe they live in the greatest nation on earth, thats up to them, and the olympics are a celebration of the host nation as much as a welcoming of all the nations participating.

So i say if they want kitsch marching bands and apple pie, let em have it, although it wont make much of a spectacle.

Having said that, i hope they do not foresake the olympic ideals in the wake of patriotic fervour, and hope that they appreciate athletes of all countries winning.

I wonder if there's an iranian bobsledding team?

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In the stillness of the evening
When the sun has had its day
I heard your voice whispering...

 

[DrTeeth]

Originally posted by zoomerang II:
well you are right and wrong.

Americans have the right to believe they live in the greatest nation on earth, thats up to them...

Sure, and I have the right to believe my father is a hedgehog but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be highly inappropriate if I were to shout it out in a rude manner at for instance a birthday party thus ruining it for everybody else.

 

[Olofski]

Of course Americans have the right to believe that they are the greatest. It?s just that I think it will get too much of showing exactly how great USA is.

Sometimes the smaller gestures makes the real impressions. The Ground Zero Flag could be one of them.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has one alpine skiier Bagher Kalhor!!!

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways

 

[Angela Harlem]

Its going to be too easy to say America is going over board.

Sure some things can be seen as in poor taste, but really, I doubt it will happen. I think its fantastic for the US to have the winter games. It couldn't come at a better (or worse) time. The people of America deserve a good party and celebtration, and what better way than by hosting one of the biggest international sporting events? Everyone loves the Olympic Games, lets not knock America. Lets all celebrate with them.
Usually I think the same way and think any opportunity for a bandwagon and roll my eyes, but not this time. I say applaud them and cheer when they all stand united. Terribly 'Ra! Ra!' I know, but I think its not the time to be a wet blanket.

*just to add too, every games is packed with a whloe heap of national pride. I know Aus is still patting themselves on the back for 2000, should we feel embarrassed about our egos? I think not.

[This message has been edited by Angela Harlem (edited 02-07-2002).]

 

[Lemonboy]

Of course it will like every other arrangement by america!!

Hitler called it Nazism!!

Bush calls it Patriotism!!



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"Master of sexual innuendo"

"PLEBA Mansion Bootler"

"Proud member of the U2 gender"

 

[zoomerang II]

I didn't say that just cause americans like to believe that they are the greatest nation on earth they have to shove it down outr throats, but there is an element of that at ANY olympics. Im australian, and in sydney we gave you a good dose of australianaa - yes parts of it were kitschy and over the top as well.

Anyway I'm gonna join the Bagher Kalhor fanclub! I reckon he will be the eddie the eagle of salt lake city.

By the way, is it true that there are 30,000 polygamists in utah? If so they could give everyone a spare wife at the opening ceremony!

 

[Achtung Bubba]

...there is an element of that at ANY olympics. Im australian, and in sydney we gave you a good dose of australianaa - yes parts of it were kitschy and over the top as well.

I wonder if anyone compared Australia to Nazi Germany.

Frankly, I think there's a HUGE fucking difference between Nazi Germany - who was promoting the supposed superiority of the Aryan race and making big plans for annexing the rest of Europe - and the United States - who is still recovering from one of the worst acts of terrorism in the history of mankind and is acting to protect THE REST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD from further attacks.

I don't see how ANYONE can equate Bush and Hitler, the United States and Nazi Germany.

I would suggest that those who do "aren't too bright", but God forbid I suggest anything the least bit offensive - and I guess we should simply ignore how INFURIATINGLY offensive the comparison is between America and the Third Reich to those who live in America and those who fought to end Nazism.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-07-2002).]

 

[Angela Harlem]

Sorry Lemonboy, but Bubba is right.

Although I'd call it a very stupid comment, rather than insult your 'brightness'.

Seriously, Im coming from a completely Aussie background here, if we can do it, so can you yanks, and all the power to you.

Too much ego is never good, but what the hell kind of good is too much flak-with something like sport???

Lets leave the US alone, eh. I've heard its character building to be nice.

 

[U2Bama]

Sports is an area where it should be acceptable to pull for "your team," which in this case, is the team of athletes representing "your country." At least it isn't a bunch of people killing each other on a battlefield. You've already told us the we shouldn't politically support our countries in whatever wars they are involved in; let us at least pull for their representatives in friendly athletic competition.

And Bubba and Angela are correct; it is a long stretch to compare Bush/patriotism to Hitler/Nazism; if you don't believe me, ask some holocaust survivors or WW2 vets.

~U2Alabama

 

[Lemonboy]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
...there is an element of that at ANY olympics. Im australian, and in sydney we gave you a good dose of australianaa - yes parts of it were kitschy and over the top as well.

I wonder if anyone compared Australia to Nazi Germany.

Frankly, I think there's a HUGE fucking difference between Nazi Germany - who was promoting the supposed superiority of the Aryan race and making big plans for annexing the rest of Europe - and the United States - who is still recovering from one of the worst acts of terrorism in the history of mankind and is acting to protect THE REST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD from further attacks.

I don't see how ANYONE can equate Bush and Hitler, the United States and Nazi Germany.

I would suggest that those who do "aren't too bright", but God forbid I suggest anything the least bit offensive - and I guess we should simply ignore how INFURIATINGLY offensive the comparison is between America and the Third Reich to those who live in America and those who fought to end Nazism.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-07-2002).]

I don?t expect you tounderstand you are probably allready indoctrinated!

No seriously!,I may have taken it a little to far

the only thing I was trying to point out was that alot of times the american patriotism seems to go WAY outta line....I mean the whole deal with playing WORLD POLICE.
e.g Yugoslavia,Vietnam,Korea.

And that Bush comment:If your not with us your against us well excuse me but that is just plain BS!!!

I just want the US to sometimes ease back...
and to go back to the so-called nazi comparison....USA has always forced their beliefs on other countries with Nuclearweapons,correct me if im wrong!

And the fact that "The greatest country in the world" still justifies putting people in the electric chair makes me sick!!!


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"Master of sexual innuendo"

"PLEBA Mansion Bootler"

"Proud member of the U2 gender"

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by Lemonboy:
No seriously!,I may have taken it a little to far

...

I just want the US to sometimes ease back...
and to go back to the so-called nazi comparison....USA has always forced their beliefs on other countries with Nuclearweapons,correct me if im wrong!

And the fact that "The greatest country in the world" still justifies putting people in the electric chair makes me sick!!!

So you ARE comparing the two?

And I've noticed that the U.S. gets pinned as imperialists when they do act, but we also get pinned as isolationists when we don't. It doesn't seem fair that the U.S. gets criticized for apparently just being the U.S.

And, harsh as it seems, Bush's comment "for us or against us" is appropriate. If we suspect terrorist cells in a country, that country will be asked to help us root out the cells. If they don't, they're de facto choosing to side with the terrorists.

The United States hasn't always forced its beliefs on other countries. Even now, we seem focused on those countries that seem to be a direct threat on American, its citizens, and its interests. As far as nuclear weapons, using them in WWII brought the war to swifter conclusion, and developing them afterwards seemed to be the only to protect the free world from Stalin, Kruschev, and the Soviet Empire.

(Remember: TWO sides were competing in the arms race.)

Finally, I'd remind you that we don't just put anyone in the electric chair: we put convicted murders to death, and that difference is key.

It may not be the most civilized practice in the world, but neither is keeping a standing army. But the government has the right to employ capital punishment for capital crimes just as it has the right to defend its own people from external forces.

 

[Lemonboy]

Im still not comparing the to but you are so locked on it that im starting to wonder if YOU actually feel guilty because I hit a real sore spot!

And the US getting critisicsm for just being the US,well If that?s the way you fell,I think it is a very childish point of wiew...

and when Bush said "For us or against"It sounded like he threatened every country who didn?t want to help bombing the Middle-east back to the stoneage!

And you are very sure to point out that the arms race had two sides...have you ever heard the saying Two wrongs doesn?t make one right???

So to go back to the death penalty!
Yeah there are convicted criminals
but what about the Black people who get an all-white jury??

And have those people stopped being humans??

If you execute a murderer you are a murderer yourself!

I think that anyone who supports the Death-penalty should ask themselves one question??


Would I like to be a executioner???






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"Master of sexual innuendo"

"PLEBA Mansion Bootler"

"Proud member of the U2 gender"

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by Lemonboy:
Im still not comparing the to but you are so locked on it that im starting to wonder if YOU actually feel guilty because I hit a real sore spot!

Yeah, that's it exactly: I'm offended because, in my heart, I know you're right. If you believe that, I have a bridge I want to sell you, too.

Certainly, "two wrongs don't make a right", but I've never thought that the arms build-up was a "wrong", per se; I believe the build-up is what KEPT the Soviets from attacking. Besides, I was just making the point that we weren't developing nuclear weapons to "force its beliefs on other countries.

So to go back to the death penalty!
Yeah there are convicted criminals
but what about the Black people who get an all-white jury??

What about them?

They're all Americans, thus they are tried before a jury of his peers. To suggest that people are occasionally wrongly convicted is one thing; to suggest that "Black people who get an all-white jury" is wrong is WAY out of line.

Further, a murderer is still a human, but a human being who knowingly and deliberately takes the life of another loses his own right to live.

Taking the right is not murder on the government's part. It's certainly not a violation of the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments, which outlaws killing without a cause. It's a just punishment for someone who murdered another.

I will grant it's a difficult thing to sentence a man to death, and a difficult thing to carry out that sentence. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. It may just be the hard, right thing to do.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-07-2002).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Taken, but thanks for the offer.

 

[Peaseblossom]

Marry me, Bubba.

 

[Olofski]

I think that there will be a HUGE difference between the Sydney Olympics and the Salt Lake City Olympics in terms of spreading and showing the patrionism.

When I was watching the Sydney games I never thought about how Aussies was showing off, or how the organization tried to fill the TV-audience with a "Australia is the best" message.

And I agree with Lemonboy, the "If your not with us your against us" statement by Bush is one of the dumbest things said on this side ot the millenium.

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Olofski:
In two days the biggest sporting event of the year(after the World Cup in football in Japan/Korea) will take place: The Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.

I?m really looking forward to this, and I think it will be good games.

But I think that it will be packed with US-patriotism, wich I would really really hate. The September 11th attacks, was really terrible and a sign of evil. But there comes a point when the American patriotism gets to big. I really hope that the Olympic Committee have the brains and guts to say no to too much propaganda. The world is not a oneparty state.

Good Luck Salt Lake City 2002!

I'd be curious to find out just what would be 'shoving down the throat patriotism' in your highest elevational opinion?

Also.. Where would you be bombarded with such patriotism?.. I'm wondering where you have people wiping all this in your faces as if it were soiled toilet paper?.. Because one would think that in your own country, I wouldn't think people would be running around touting America as the Salvational Land.

I remember back in the Sydney games, we were forced to listen to Kylie and her enormous collection of Covers, with Dancing Aborigines on top of it...

L.Unplugged

Oh.. and just a suggestion Olofski.. instead of relating something to an 'orgie', I think Douche-Fest would be more appropriate


[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 02-08-2002).]

 

[dream wanderer]

I had this sentiment on another thread here....concerning patriotism. I was too lazy to make another reply ....

There is nothing wrong with showing pride in country and patriotism...among ourselves. Do we really need to bombard the rest of the world with it all the time? They know who we are and what we stand for ...why drive it into the ground ? I can't imagine how it would be if say every time we turned on the tv or watched a movie we had to endure another sermon on the greatness of Aby Daby (or whatever) I would soon get tired of it...as I'm sure they would get tired of us praising ourselves all the time. We can still be proud of ourselves without making them feel like a bunch of wet socks because they are not one of us or making them angry because they know they enjoy the same things we do in their 'free' country.

dream wanderer

 

[bonoman]

I've been watching CNN off and on today and the IOC said that the US could not fly their falg above all others, which was the plan.

At least someone has some sense. Anything the US enters usually seems like a popularity contest. Everyone trying to be better then the US and the US brushing everyone off. I can feel the patritism coming now. On CNN, to show that they arnt biased, they have assigned a britsh reporter to the olypics. Give me a break. Thats even worse then assigning an american.

Also on the for us or againist us thing.

I must agree it was the stupidest things i have ever heard. It is the biggest form of arogance. Who the fuck are you to tell the whole world that. And your arguement Bubba:

If we suspect terrorist cells in a country, that country will be asked to help us root out the cells. If they don't, they're de facto choosing to side with the terrorists.

Who are you to say what a cell is and what is wrong with my country. Can my country not 'root' out that cell ourselves. Not everyone agrees with the US. Just like not everyone agrees with you. For example, if Canada said to the US we will find our cells and get rid of them. No help from you. Would we then be againist you. NO. we just dont need the US sticking its noses in our business.


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Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

 

[MSU2mike]

I'd love for someone to explain to me why "If you're not with us then you're against us" is a stupid or ridiculous statement.

Frankly, I think it's pretty cut and dried.

If you take steps to keep terrorism out of your country you're with us. If you support terror organizations or are otherwise indifferent to them you aren't doing the world any favors, and are thus against us.

 

[MSU2mike]

Originally posted by bonoman:
Who are you to say what a cell is and what is wrong with my country. Can my country not 'root' out that cell ourselves. Not everyone agrees with the US. Just like not everyone agrees with you. For example, if Canada said to the US we will find our cells and get rid of them. No help from you. Would we then be againist you. NO. we just dont need the US sticking its noses in our business.

No, of course that wouldn't be "against us." And guess what? I really don't think anyone would be accusing you of conspiring against the U.S. or the rest of the world either. Take care of it yourself, that's great. Even better, actually.

One absolute truth in matters like these are that if the U.S. gets involved elsewhere we're chided for sticking our nose in other's business. And if we don't get involved everyone bitches that we aren't doing enough to help out. It's a Catch-22.

 

[ocu2fan]

I know I am just a simple-minded, backward American but I wonder if any of you "enlightened" Europeans have ever heard of a thing called the Marshall Plan? If not you might wanna look it up, you guys owe all your prosperity today to us. So why don't you solve your own problems instead of constantly critiquing our society. At some point, anti-American statements stop being corrective criticism and they simply become a really bad mask for petty jealousy.

Again, tear me apart because like I said, I'm only a lowly American, a barbarian by most world standards and to top it off, I'm a Californian at that!

 

[TylerDurden]

There are times when over the top patriotism is out of place, and Americans have the reputation around the world for going over the top more then anyone else, but for gods sake it's the friggin Olympics and I spent the 2 weeks of the Sydney Olympics wrapped in an Australian flag yelling myself stupid drinking like a fish and having the time of my life going absolutely nuts supporting Australia and being proud to be Australian and no way was anyone telling me this isn't the best country in the world and I'd advise all the Americans here to do the same. Go nuts.

Tattoo your whole body red, white and blue. Scream your lungs out. Have a great f***n' time. I'd love to have the Olympics back here because that's what it's all about.

I mean seriously, if you can't go nuts for your country at a sporting event, and can't be proud of your country during an Olympics (since when has the host countries culture not completely dominated the 'vibe' of the Olympics?) then something is way wrong.

Just keep Celine Dion away. Please.

 

[Olofski]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Also.. Where would you be bombarded with such patriotism?.. I'm wondering where you have people wiping all this in your faces as if it were soiled toilet paper?.. Because one would think that in your own country, I wouldn't think people would be running around touting America as the Salvational Land.

Oh.. and just a suggestion Olofski.. instead of relating something to an 'orgie', I think Douche-Fest would be more appropriate

Television, but I have to say that the opening-ceremony was really beautiful so I appologise for thinking it would be crap. Sorry!

Well since I haven?t really used English for a year my phrases might not be up to date, so no more orgies from my side.

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways

 

[Olofski]

Originally posted by MSU2mike:
I'd love for someone to explain to me why "If you're not with us then you're against us" is a stupid or ridiculous statement.
Frankly, I think it's pretty cut and dried.


No, it?s not pretty cut and dried and I will give you an example:
By the end of 2001 USA posted a blacklist with people all over the world that they thought were connected with terrorism. On that list there were three Swedes, Abdirisak Aden, Yusuf Ahmed Ali and Abdulaziz Ali, they were members of a community called al-Barakaat a Bankingorganization from Somalia. Without presenting any evidence USA ordered the UN, EU and Sweden that their assets were to be freezed. The Swedish security-police says that there are no evidence what so ever that they are onvolved in terrorist-organizations. They are now labeled as terrorists and can?t get money for rent and people who are trying to collect money for them is braking the law.

IF Sweden would open their accounts or give them money, we would be accused of housing terrorists.

All I?m saying is that the world doesn?t have two sides, for or against. It?s packed with different opinions and saying like Bush that there are only two sides of this story is just stupid.

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways

 

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Olofski:


Television, but I have to say that the opening-ceremony was really beautiful so I appologise for thinking it would be crap. Sorry!

[/B]

Ah.. Swedish Television is going to have ri-cock-u-lous amounts of American Patriotism????

Explain that one..

But agreed.. THe opening ceremony was excellent, I loved the dancing cowboys.. Only in AMerica.. We love our Cowboys and Saloons!!

And R. Kelly.. What an amazing Musician.

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

L.Unplugged

 

[Olofski]

Originally posted by ocu2fan:
I know I am just a simple-minded, backward American but I wonder if any of you "enlightened" Europeans have ever heard of a thing called the Marshall Plan? If not you might wanna look it up, you guys owe all your prosperity today to us. So why don't you solve your own problems instead of constantly critiquing our society. At some point, anti-American statements stop being corrective criticism and they simply become a really bad mask for petty jealousy.

First of all Europe isn?t one united continent. The countries that stood outside the war in Europe does NOT owe the Americans their wealth today! So to say that Europeans owe all our prosperity today to the USA, is going to far. Yes, the US payed a LOT of money and I?m sure that the continent is very thankful for that.

Let?s make one thing clear I?m not jealous of USA. Belive me I would love to go there and see the country, it?s one of my dreams to see USA, and I love a LOT of thigs that comes from USA. But I can honestly say that I?m not jealous of USA. It?s arrogant comments like that, that makes the rest of the world dislike USA. Everything you have over there we have here aswell, and with a history that stretches more than 300 years.

And to make one thing clear, I?m not trying to dizz the Marshal-plan.

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Olofski
SWEDEN
We move through miracle days Spirit moves in mysterious ways