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Old 06-03-2004, 02:06 PM   #46
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What about state songs? Mine has the word God in it

I'm completely horrified
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:14 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
SO the Missionaries were the equivalent of the Nazi's?


Is that your point?
No, that was not my point. I was comparing how symbols convey different messages to different people.

To some, The Crusades may be an acceptable 'event', to others that may not be so.

Either way, I'm curious... why are some people SO opposed to the cross being removed? Would they be so opposed, say, if it were a star of david, an ankh, or some other religious symbol that was being removed instead? I doubt it.
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:20 PM   #48
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We had a controversy over the Confederate flag here in Alabama. It was being flown on public property, I forget exactly where. (Where's U2Bama when you need him? He's an expert on this). Critics charged that it celebrated slavery and thus racism. Defenders claimed that it just celebrated part of the state's heritage. Well, as it turned out the precise flag they used was the battle flag of the Confederacy. Passions ran high and tempers flared. The flag was eventually removed and put in a less controversial place. Earlier this year there was a flap over the Confederate flag when Howard Dean mentioned it in a speech. I can't imagine a cross on a seal being quite as controversial as the Confederate flag is around here. You can't change the fact that our state was part of the Confederacy but you can change what you think about the Confederacy, what with many registered Republicans these days opposing the idea of secession. Believe it or not, I have an ancestor who was a slave owner who voted against secession.
*not trying to steal thread, just comparing controversies*
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
What about state songs? Mine has the word God in it

I'm completely horrified
So many "Establishments"
So little time

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Old 06-03-2004, 02:54 PM   #50
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Originally posted by Elvis
No, that was not my point. I was comparing how symbols convey different messages to different people.
So a cross is a symbol of what to you?
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:56 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Elvis



Either way, I'm curious... why are some people SO opposed to the cross being removed? Would they be so opposed, say, if it were a star of david, an ankh, or some other religious symbol that was being removed instead? I doubt it.
*raises hand* Oh oh Me, me, teacher I would!

I don't want to see anything taken off and it doesn't matter to me what religious symbol is there, it's not forcing anybody to say it represents them, it's not forcing them to convert to it, let it be. The thing that bugs me about the cross being removed is that it's ALWAYS the cross and ONLY the cross, you never see or hear about anything else ever being challenged, or anyone ever getting offended over anything else, not even the "goddesses" on the state and county seals!

Even when Alabama had the Ten Commandments thing, they blamed "Christians" for it even though the Ten Commandments are from Moses and were first and always Jewish. It's a heritage and faith that Jews and Christians share, and one that has been important to this country as a basic law like old English common law was, and that gives them historical value too.
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:15 PM   #52
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Originally posted by verte76
We had a controversy over the Confederate flag here in Alabama. It was being flown on public property, I forget exactly where. (Where's U2Bama when you need him? He's an expert on this). Critics charged that it celebrated slavery and thus racism. Defenders claimed that it just celebrated part of the state's heritage. Well, as it turned out the precise flag they used was the battle flag of the Confederacy. Passions ran high and tempers flared. The flag was eventually removed and put in a less controversial place. Earlier this year there was a flap over the Confederate flag when Howard Dean mentioned it in a speech. I can't imagine a cross on a seal being quite as controversial as the Confederate flag is around here. You can't change the fact that our state was part of the Confederacy but you can change what you think about the Confederacy, what with many registered Republicans these days opposing the idea of secession. Believe it or not, I have an ancestor who was a slave owner who voted against secession.
*not trying to steal thread, just comparing controversies*
We have had a lot of controversy about this in VA too. I had just written a very long reply when my cat jumped on the keyboard and I lost it I'll write it again later, right now my hands are too tired.

A couple years ago VA also had to change the lyrics to the state song, "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" because it mentioned laboring in the field for massa, even though the songwriter was a black man.
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:23 PM   #53
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Originally posted by U2Kitten

Even when Alabama had the Ten Commandments thing, they blamed "Christians" for it even though the Ten Commandments are from Moses and were first and always Jewish.
To be fair, the guy at the center of the controversy was a Christian so it's not entirely unreasonable to associate it with Christianity.
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:25 PM   #54
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Originally posted by U2Kitten



A couple years ago VA also had to change the lyrics to the state song, "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" because it mentioned laboring in the field for massa, even though the songwriter was a black man.
Wasn't a lot of the controvsey over the use of the word 'darky' in the lyrics as well? Kentucky changed the lyrics to it's state song in 1986 because it used to talk about 'darkies.'
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:40 PM   #55
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Wasn't a lot of the controvsey over the use of the word 'darky' in the lyrics as well? Kentucky changed the lyrics to it's state song in 1986 because it used to talk about 'darkies.'
I remember that! "My Old Kentucky Home!" But it was a Stephen Foster song, and he was white. But with VA it was a black guy who wrote it, but they still had to change it when people got offended. I'm really surprised it took so long.

It really was a lame song anyway!

Carry me back to ole Virginny
that's where the cotton and the corn and taters grow
that's were the birds worble sweetly in the springtime
that's where this ole darky's heart am long to go

That's where I labored so hard for ole massa
day after day in the fields of yellow corn
no place on earth do I love more sincerely
then ole Virginny, the place where I was born!

Aaggh that's bad! Now it's the same tune but talks about the beauty of the beach and mountains or something. They should have just chose a completely different song. Some people wanted "Sweet Virginia Breeze" by the Robbin Thompson band. But looking at it, it's really hard to believe it actually lasted until the 21st century
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Old 06-03-2004, 03:59 PM   #56
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Yeah, my family (we're from Virginia) was really angry about the song being changed, but I think at least part of that can be contributed to the fact that they're rascists.
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Old 06-03-2004, 04:36 PM   #57
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Honestly, I haven't the Alabama state song since I was in grammar school. I don't think I'd recognize it.
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Old 06-03-2004, 04:41 PM   #58
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Is it "Sweet Home Alabama?"

Verte I really do want to discuss the Confederate flag controversy more sometime. It goes really deep and I think only another person born and raised in a former Confederate state would really know how it is.
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Old 06-03-2004, 05:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis


No, that was not my point. I was comparing how symbols convey different messages to different people.

To some, The Crusades may be an acceptable 'event', to others that may not be so.

Either way, I'm curious... why are some people SO opposed to the cross being removed? Would they be so opposed, say, if it were a star of david, an ankh, or some other religious symbol that was being removed instead? I doubt it.
Why is it they are wanting to remove the cross, and say nothing of the goddess? That's what is irritating. Maybe they don't know that's a goddess, but that would show their ignorance about the seal.

New seal for California, how about a raised middle finger then eh. Road rage, traffic, crime, pollution, outrageous house prices,

I tend to think there are not very many history nerds within the ACLU.

I suppose next is St. Patrick's day celebrations/parades, as the next target. No more clovers, because that was Patrick's illustration of the Trinity.

St. Valentines day, that's out too.
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Old 06-03-2004, 05:45 PM   #60
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Er no way, scratch that, Hallmark will not stand for that. They need all the holidays they can get.
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