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Old 09-19-2007, 06:37 PM   #1
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Will Israel starve women and children to death?

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Israel declares Gaza Strip a hostile entity

20 Sep 2007, 0259 hrs IST,AFP


JERUSALEM: Israel declared the Gaza Strip a "hostile entity" on Wednesday, clearing the way for shutting off basic supplies to the Hamas-run territory in revenge for rocket fire.

The Western-shunned Islamist movement Hamas slammed the decision as "collective punishment" for the 1.5 million residents of the impoverished territory, one of the world's most densely populated places.

US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, who arrived on her latest peace mission to the region on Wednesday, said that Hamas which seized control of Gaza three months ago was "indeed a hostile entity. It is a hostile entity to the US as well."

"Following extensive legal consultations, Israel has decided to declare Gaza as a hostile entity, with all the international implications," a senior Israeli official said after a meeting of Israel's powerful security cabinet.

An official statement said the unanimous decision would affect supplies of electricity and fuel to the territory, where Hamas seized control three months ago.

Israel provides Gaza with the majority of both. "Restrictions will also be placed on the movement of people to and from the Gaza Strip," the statement said.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:10 PM   #2
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Will Israel starve women and children? They've done it before.

http://www.madre.org/articles/me/hungerinpalestine.html
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:26 PM   #3
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The declaration is largely the result of pressure from the right-wing parties for Olmert's government to respond to the steady stream of rocket attacks on the Sderot region, and in particular the attack which injured 70 Israeli soldiers at the Zikkim base last week. However, if the threat to respond to further attacks by cutting off Gaza's electricity and fuel supplies were to be carried out, that would obviously violate Geneva protocols concerning obligations to civilians (though the government would probably try to argue that those obligations don't apply since they're "technically" not occupying Gaza).
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:35 PM   #4
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I did find another article where they say they won't cut off water, and the bare essentials. Also, they will let through enough power for hospitals.


I do realize this is tied the rocket attacks.

I just don't see how it will do any good.

Especially for Israel.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:49 AM   #5
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Oh I get it....it's OUR fault, right?

My response to this declaration is: "what the hell took so long??". We should have done this right away when Hamas bullied their way into power.....and please don't try and tell me that they were "democratically" elected - as if anyone really had a CHOICE or if anyone else had a chance of standing against Hamas and making it through the elections in one piece!

We have our worst enemy at our doorstep. An enemy that is committed to our destruction, an enemy that will use any resource at their disposal to fight us, an enemy that receives financial aid which is then used to arm inself rather than provide for it's own people.

I am very sorry for the innocent peace-loving residents of Gaza who have to suffer for the actions of their terrorist government - but what else could we have done?

If any humanitarian crisis arises, it is HAMAS's doing - not ours.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:58 AM   #6
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^

And now you have some idea how we feel when you tell us what to think about how things are run in our country when you have no clue.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Oh I get it....it's OUR fault, right?

My response to this declaration is: "what the hell took so long??". We should have done this right away when Hamas bullied their way into power.....and please don't try and tell me that they were "democratically" elected - as if anyone really had a CHOICE or if anyone else had a chance of standing against Hamas and making it through the elections in one piece!

We have our worst enemy at our doorstep. An enemy that is committed to our destruction, an enemy that will use any resource at their disposal to fight us, an enemy that receives financial aid which is then used to arm inself rather than provide for it's own people.

I am very sorry for the innocent peace-loving residents of Gaza who have to suffer for the actions of their terrorist government - but what else could we have done?

If any humanitarian crisis arises, it is HAMAS's doing - not ours.
You should have mentioned, "an enemy Israel created with its brutal occupation."

I know it's hard when you've lived in an area for a while and your parents may have raised you there, but your people are occupying land stolen from the Palestinians. The occupation caused this; just because some Palestinians engage in slightly more violent resistance than others doesn't make it less moral than Israel's ethnic cleansing and bombing and killing for the past several decades. Israel is at fault the same way white settlers were for attacking and displacing native Americans and then calling natives barbaric for resisting violently.

The fact that Israel always gets what it wants from the US, including arms and funds to kill more Palestinians and Lebanese is the major cause for the regretful popularity of Al Qaeda-type groups. Israel is always treated with kid gloves by the West; it's time this stopped, and people recognize the terrorists who started it all by brutally displacing Palestinians, diverting their resources, unilaterally deciding the terms of negotiation, and constantly interfering in their lives and politics. I'd trust Hamas over any Israeli party, especially the racist Likud.

It's Israel and the international community's fault for depriving Hamas of the Palestinians' rightful funds and tax dollars and for driving it out of power. Hamas can't give up the right to attack Israel unless Israel stops the occupation and aparteid tactics. Now that would be fair! But you'd never hear that from CNN or the Bush administration. I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The declaration is largely the result of pressure from the right-wing parties for Olmert's government to respond to the steady stream of rocket attacks on the Sderot region, and in particular the attack which injured 70 Israeli soldiers at the Zikkim base last week. However, if the threat to respond to further attacks by cutting off Gaza's electricity and fuel supplies were to be carried out, that would obviously violate Geneva protocols concerning obligations to civilians (though the government would probably try to argue that those obligations don't apply since they're "technically" not occupying Gaza).
Israel has violated numerous human rights laws, including thousands of UN violations. As long as America stands by Israel, they don't have to listen and go on and on about how they know suffering like no others because of the Holocaust and brain wash the West into having to support Israel for fear of being called anti-semitic. It's such a propaganda tool exploiting the tragic deaths of millions to continue to exploit Palestinians.
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muldfeld

You should have mentioned, "an enemy Israel created with its brutal occupation."

I know it's hard when you've lived in an area for a while and your parents may have raised you there, but your people are occupying land stolen from the Palestinians. The occupation caused this; just because some Palestinians engage in slightly more violent resistance than others doesn't make it less moral than Israel's ethnic cleansing and bombing and killing for the past several decades. Israel is at fault the same way white settlers were for attacking and displacing native Americans and then calling natives barbaric for resisting violently.

The fact that Israel always gets what it wants from the US, including arms and funds to kill more Palestinians and Lebanese is the major cause for the regretful popularity of Al Qaeda-type groups. Israel is always treated with kid gloves by the West; it's time this stopped, and people recognize the terrorists who started it all by brutally displacing Palestinians, diverting their resources, unilaterally deciding the terms of negotiation, and constantly interfering in their lives and politics. I'd trust Hamas over any Israeli party, especially the racist Likud.

It's Israel and the international community's fault for depriving Hamas of the Palestinians' rightful funds and tax dollars and for driving it out of power. Hamas can't give up the right to attack Israel unless Israel stops the occupation and aparteid tactics. Now that would be fair! But you'd never hear that from CNN or the Bush administration. I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.

As for the middle-east, the Palestinian problem could have been solved 60 years ago if the Arabs living in Palestine had accepted the UN partition plan and put down their arms against us. The Palestinian state would have been created 60 years ago alongside Israel and the Palestinian people could have been ruling themselves and providing for themselves.

There were so many missed opportunities to solve the middle-east crisis - just to name a few:

1. After the six-day war in June 1967 when Israel captured the west bank, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Penninsula. These terrirotories were captured in a defensive war which we won by the grace of G-d. These territories were never officially annexed by Israel and we've always said that we're waiting to negotiate their return in exchange for peace - which of course was out of the question for the Arab countries, until Egypt took the bold step of making peace with us in 1979 - and as a result we gave back the Sinai Penninsula.

2. Another missed opportunity (in a chain of missed opportunities) came in 1993 when Israel recognized the PLO and the Oslo agreements were signed, granting the Palestinians autonomy leading up to an eventual Palestinian state which was supposed to be established by 1998. While the Fatah party laid down their arms, Hamas raised the mantle of radical Islam and waged a murderous campaign of suicide bombers against our population.

3. In 2000, Israel reached an unprecedented decision to sign an agreement which would effectively return 97% of the west bank to the Palestinians, including dismantling the settlements. Yassar Arafat turned us down cold and missed a true once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

4. In August 2005, after realizing that we had absolutely no one to talk to on the Palestinian side after Hamas took power in Gaza, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, dismantling settlements and relinquishing the land to the Palestinians. Israel left all the infrastructure intact and the Palestinian government could have used the land to resettle the poor people of Gaza City and to take them out of the squalor of the refugee camps…but no….they preferred to use perfectly good land to place rocket launchers and fire them into the nearby city of Sderot – it was much more important for the terrorist government to fight us instead of taking care of the needs of their own people.

5. Iran is pledging hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinians. Do you think it’s for food and medicine? Think again. The Hamas government will use this money to arm themselves with more sophisticated weapons and long-range missiles that will put us AND them in grave danger.
I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Time after time after time Israel has tried to reach agreements with the Palestinian governments, to no avail.

+++

I live in the hopes that someone on the Palestinian side will come to their senses and realize that they can accomplish so much more by peaceful negotiations rather than constantly fighting a war which they will ultimately lose….mainly because Israel isn’t going anywhere….and the constant fighting will only result in the loss of more innocent lives on both sides….and for what????

Thanks for reading,
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Old 09-20-2007, 05:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
^

And now you have some idea how we feel when you tell us what to think about how things are run in our country when you have no clue.
I'm sorry but, with all due respect to you, I think I have a right to comment on what goes on in the U.S. and you have the right to comment on Israel and we can correct each other if we're wrong - just like I'm doing here.

This forum is for free discussion and I don't think I have to live somewhere in order to state my opinion on what goes on there.

That being said, I welcome any comment/criticism about my country and I would gladly answer any of your questions to the best of my ability.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:22 AM   #11
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Originally posted by AchtungBono
I'm sorry but, with all due respect to you, I think I have a right to comment on what goes on in the U.S. and you have the right to comment on Israel and we can correct each other if we're wrong - just like I'm doing here.

This forum is for free discussion and I don't think I have to live somewhere in order to state my opinion on what goes on there.

That being said, I welcome any comment/criticism about my country and I would gladly answer any of your questions to the best of my ability.
She's not talking about rights; she's saying how ridiculous many of your comments seem. You usually pop in, drop a few lines about how great Bush and Fox are, and then let that be it. Back your opinions up and when someone counters yours, address it. That's how it works here. It's not about stating opinions. It's about discussing and debating the logic behind them.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:38 AM   #12
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


Back your opinions up and when someone counters yours, address it. That's how it works here. It's not about stating opinions. It's about discussing and debating the logic behind them.
I thought that was what I was doing with this thread.

I don't run away from debates but, since I'm at work at my desk, unfortunately I don't always have the time to engage in a lively debate as much as I'd like to.

Today happens to be a slow day so my replies are coming a bit faster.

As I've stated many times, I am not a "hit and run" poster and I welcome any chance for debate when I am free to do so.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:47 AM   #13
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Originally posted by AchtungBono
I thought that was what I was doing with this thread.

I don't run away from debates but, since I'm at work at my desk, unfortunately I don't always have the time to engage in a lively debate as much as I'd like to.

Today happens to be a slow day so my replies are coming a bit faster.

As I've stated many times, I am not a "hit and run" poster and I welcome any chance for debate when I am free to do so.
Fair enough, and you are doing fine here. Indra was referring to past discussions you've engaged in.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:09 AM   #14
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I think it's important and healthy to hear everyone's perspectives.
The United States has an interest in the preservation of the existence and viability of Israel, perhaps not as much a vested interest as Israel in the continuing support of the United States. The United States also has an interest in what is happening to and done by the Palestinians. I see Israel as a small and successful country surrounded by enemies and as an aggressor. I see Palestinians as both victims and (along with the people who support them) as aggressors.

The interests of the United States do not always coincide with the interests of Israel. That is why you spy on us. That is why we spy on you. You can probably tell me much better if the President (and Fox News) is good for Israel. And why many of us will tell you that the President is not good for the United States.
Our interests are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they are different.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


….mainly because Israel isn’t going anywhere…


and this is the fact that everyone has to come to terms with.
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