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Old 09-20-2007, 07:03 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Muldfeld
I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.
I also hope the left wing voice wins. But it is not clear to me from what you wrote that you in fact recognize a two-state solution as acceptable or legitimate...do you?

Also, while I would never expect Palestinians to see the 'nation of refugees' concept of Israel as 'justification' for anything--since they're living that themselves, aren't they--it would seem a bit contradictory to speak of the history of "anti-Jewish feeling" in the "Christian West" on the one hand, then to speak of Jews leaving their "well-off homes in the West" on the other. Unless it's certain specific later stages of Jewish emigration to Israel you have in mind.
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Chicago Tribune, Nov.1
................................................................................
Wary of a potentially costly ground operation and under domestic pressure to respond to the rocket attacks, the Israeli government tightened sanctions on Gaza this week, cutting back fuel supplies and closing a commercial crossing in an effort to press the Hamas rulers of Gaza to rein in the militants. Plans to disrupt the electricity supply were put on hold by Atty. Gen. Menachem Mazuz, who said more work was needed to ensure that the measure did not cause humanitarian harm.

The attorney general's step came after 10 human-rights groups petitioned the Israeli Supreme Court to block the fuel and power cutbacks, calling them illegal collective punishment that would affect vital services such as hospitals, sewage systems and the water supply. Palestinians in Gaza rely on Israel for all their fuel and more than half their electricity. According to a court response submitted by the state, supplies of gasoline and diesel fuel to Gaza are being cut by 15% for the next two weeks, and fuel for Gaza's only power station is being reduced by 21%.

The Sufa border crossing, through which food and medical supplies were shipped to Gaza, has been closed, leaving only one supply passage open at the Kerem Shalom Crossing. The measure means that the capacity of supply deliveries would be halved from about 100 trucks a day to about 50, said Shlomo Dror, spokesman for the Defense Ministry department that deals with the Palestinian areas.
..................................................................................
Sari Bashi, director of Gisha, one of the Israeli rights groups that petitioned the Supreme Court, rejected assertions by Israeli officials that the fuel and power cutbacks would be monitored and calibrated to avoid humanitarian harm. "Nobody can predict the effects of cutting vital needs," she said. "Any reduction in supply will have drastic and unexpected consequences on the functioning of vital systems. The thought that you can control the kind of damage being done is reckless and cruel. Collective punishment is illegal and a moral red line."

In an editorial Tuesday, Ha'aretz, a liberal newspaper, called the cutbacks an "act of frustration" and "revenge." "Harming civilians in a deliberate and planned way is illegal, even if it is done in response to action against civilians by the other side," the editorial said. "The babies of Gaza are more dependent on Israel than on the Hamas government, and the decision to punish them for the firing of Qassam rockets will not enhance the security of residents of Sderot."

Infrastructure Minister Benjamin Ben Eliezer said the cutbacks are a final attempt to avoid a military operation that could cause civilian casualties. "What's the alternative?" he told Israel Radio on Monday. "The alternative is that tomorrow or the next day we'll be forced to bring three or four divisions and go into Gaza. There's nothing we haven't tried."

But critics of the government say it hasn't tried truce talks with Hamas. A group of prominent Israeli intellectuals urged the government to negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas and a broader peace agreement with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. "Israel has in the past negotiated with its worst enemies," the intellectuals said in a petition published in late September. "Now the appropriate course of action is to negotiate with Hamas to reach a general cease-fire that will prevent further suffering on both sides."
Quote:
New York Times, Nov. 2

The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, met a group of Hamas leaders in the West Bank today, the first time he has done so since Hamas routed Fatah forces in Gaza in June.

Mr. Abbas said that the meeting in his Ramallah office, which followed Friday prayers, was not the beginning of a formal dialogue with Hamas. Instead, it appeared to be an effort to split more moderate Hamas officials in the West Bank from their more militant brethren in Gaza. Hamas has said regularly since June that it wants to talk to Mr. Abbas about reconstituting a unity government with Fatah, but Mr. Abbas has said that Hamas must first apologize for its “coup” in Gaza, pull back from buildings taken at the time and restore security officials, nearly all of them from Fatah, to their posts.
....................................................................................
Still, if an international talks on Middle East peace organized by the United States fails later this year, some Palestinians believe that Mr. Abbas may once again negotiate with Hamas. The radical Islamic movement is also powerful in the West Bank, but it is weaker and more underground than in Gaza because of the Israeli occupation and the campaign that Fatah has led against it since June. In the West Bank, Fatah has closed many Hamas offices, arrested Hamas members and clerics and tried to prevent the circulation of its newspapers.

In Gaza, a more militant Hamas wing appears to be in control. When a relative moderate, a former Haniya spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, called in an internal letter three months ago for negotiations with Israel, political openness and reengagement with Fatah, he was pushed to repudiate it when it became public. Mr. Hamad, who has said that the takeover of Gaza by Hamas was a reactive mistake, has been told to keep silent, as has another Haniya adviser, Ahmed Youssef, who had tried to present a more moderate Hamas face to Europe and the West.

On Friday, Mr. Abbas hosted a group including Nasser el-din al-Shaer, former deputy prime minister in the first Hamas government; Ahmed Abu Ruman; Hussein Abu Qweik; and Ayman Daraghmeh. They first attended prayers in a mosque in Mr. Abbas’s compound, then met in his office. Mr. Shaer had criticized the comments of some Hamas leaders in Gaza, who bragged that they would be praying in Mr. Abbas’s West Bank compound soon, as they were now praying at his headquarters in Gaza. “The Hamas movement rejects the principle of violent infighting in the West Bank,” Mr. Shaer said. “We support the general attitude to achieving social peace and security.”
..................................................................................
Nabil Abu Rudeineh, an Abbas aide, said that the president was not opposed to Hamas, only to its coup. “As President Abbas said, Hamas is part of the Palestinian people,” he said. “Our problem is with a small group who rose against legitimate authority.”

There have been quiet talks among some senior Hamas and Fatah members who believe that the Palestinians cannot remain split for long. But others in Fatah agree with Israel and Washington that Hamas’s call for dialogue is disingenuous, that it has no intention of giving up control in Gaza, and that it will act to disrupt any progress toward peace with Israel.
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:18 PM   #18
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Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.


~Bob Dylan
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:20 PM   #19
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That would almost fit...except he's got the real bully in his back pocket, with the biggest guns pointed at his enemies, should they dare to so much as twitch.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
More Gazans Flood Across Border

By STEVEN ERLANGER
New York Times, January 25, 2008


RAFAH, Egypt — Tens of thousands more Palestinians flooded across the breached border crossing from Gaza into Egypt on Thursday, and Egyptian merchants greeted them with a cornucopia of consumer goods and higher prices than on Wednesday, when Hamas militants toppled large sections of the fence. There were many more Egyptian police at the crossings from Rafah, more of them dressed in riot gear and some using batons with small electric charges to keep the large, pushing crowds in some form of order. And on Thursday, too, more Hamas gunmen were visible on the Gaza side, maintaining calm and doing random checks for possibly smuggled weapons. But neither group tried to stop the shoppers and businessmen restocking their wares in Egypt, nor did Hamas make any visible effort to control or tax the thousands of cigarettes coming into Gaza, let alone the televisions, generators, washing machines, milk, cheese, sheep, goats, cows, camels, diesel and gasoline.

More quietly, Hamas gunmen could be seen taking delivery of hundreds of bags of cement. Israel has sharply restricted the import of cement into Gaza, even for aid projects, because it says Hamas diverts the supply to build fortified tunnels and emplacements for use against any major Israeli military action in Gaza.

Both exchange rates and prices were up, as were the amounts Gazans were buying, with clear intent to resell within Gaza. So intense was the trading that even some Palestinians grew worried that there would be a backlash from impoverished Egyptians of Rafah. “This is not so good for the Palestinian people,” said Ahmed Shawa, a Gaza engineer who crossed into Egypt on Thursday. “Prices are becoming very high while people in Egyptian Rafah don’t have bread. If I go to your country and buy everything and you don’t have bread, you’re going to hate me.”

Hamas officials said they took action to open the Egyptian border after Israel last week decided to stop nearly all shipments into Gaza, including industrial diesel needed to run Gaza’s main power plant and gasoline, in an effort to push Gazan gunmen to stop firing rockets into Israeli towns and farms. Under severe international criticism, Israel relented but temporarily, agreeing to supply a week’s worth of fuel, but it limited supplies again after the border breach.

The Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, considered his options, but Egyptian officials made it clear on Thursday that while Egypt would not hurt Palestinians seeking food and other goods, it would also not accept a lawless border, open to arms traffic and unregulated travel of gunmen and political extremists. Both Israel and the United States said that it was Egypt’s responsibility to bring the border situation under control. Gen. Ahmed Abdel Hamid, the governor of northern Sinai, estimated that up to 120,000 Palestinians were currently in Egypt, but said they were not being allowed to travel beyond El Arish, which lies slightly beyond Rafah. He said he thought the border might stay open for another “four or five days” and then would be closed pending another agreement on what to do. “You have to see where this problem came from,” General Abdel Hamid said. “Before the dispute between Hamas and Fatah, the border was open every day with no problem. Since the dispute, the border has been closed.”

In fact, before the fighting between the two Palestinian factions over the summer, during which Hamas ousted Fatah from Gaza, the Rafah crossing was closed more often than it was open. But he emphasized that Egypt was not favoring one faction or another, saying: “Egypt is with the legitimate authority,” presumably the Palestinian Authority and its president, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.

Mr. Mubarak’s officials said that Egypt would not accept responsibility for supplying Gaza and let Israel off the hook, as some Israeli officials hope. “This is a wrong assumption,” said Hossam Zaki, the spokesman for Egypt’s Foreign Ministry. “The current situation is only an exception and for temporary reasons. The border will go back to normal.” But the definition of normal was left unclear. When Israel pulled its settlers and troops out of Gaza in 2005, the Rafah crossing was opened with great fanfare to allow individuals in and out of Gaza. European Union supervisors were put in place, and Israeli video cameras monitored the traffic. But for security reasons, the crossing was often shut, and it has been shut completely since Hamas took over Gaza. It will be difficult politically now for Mr. Mubarak to reseal the border completely, shutting off any outlet for Gaza. But he has promised Israel that Egypt would coordinate its actions on the Gaza border to preserve security interests of both countries.

In a speech on Thursday, Mr. Mubarak said that “peace efforts cannot endure any other failure and Egypt will not allow the starving of Palestinians in Gaza or that the situation in the strip turns into a humanitarian crisis.” He called on Palestinian factions to work together and said: “No one can outbid Egypt in its support for this silent nation and their just cause.” Egypt, he said, “is doing its utmost in its movements and contacts to end their suffering and to lift the Israeli measures of collective punishment and to bring back the supply of fuel and electricity and humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.”

Hamas officials want to regulate the border but reopen the crossing again in coordination with Egypt, but also to allow the import and export of goods. A Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, said in an interview that Hamas wanted to end the system under which Israel collects import duties and taxes for the Palestinians. Israel does not give those receipts to Hamas, but only to the Palestinian Authority government, based in Ramallah, in the West Bank. He also noted that the Israeli economy was too expensive for Gazans, while prices of everything from electricity to flour and gasoline were much cheaper in Egypt.

On Thursday, the Israeli deputy defense minister, Matan Vilnai, said openly what some senior Israeli officials would only say anonymously on Wednesday — that Israel would like to hand over responsibility for Gaza to Egypt, in essence, and ironically, supporting the Hamas position. “We need to understand that when Gaza is open to the other side we lose responsibility for it,” Mr. Vilnai said. “So we want to disconnect from it.” He said that Israel’s effort to disengage from Gaza “continues in that we want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place.” But according to his office, he acknowledged that “we are responsible for it as long as there is no alternative.” Even Hamas argues that Israel continues to be responsible for the well-being of ordinary Gazans because it continues to control Gaza’s sea and air space and the only goods crossings.

On Sunday, Israel’s Supreme Court will hear an emergency appeal by Israeli human-rights groups for an injunction against Israel’s cuts in electricity and in fuel supplies to Gaza. Although Israel promised to deliver 580,000 gallons of industrial diesel this week for the Gaza’s sole power plant, which supplies much of Gaza City, only 333,000 gallons had been delivered by Thursday. The power plant, which had shut down for lack of fuel and is now running only one turbine, will have to shut down again on Sunday unless new supplies are delivered. Normally, Israel and Egypt supply the remainder of Gaza’s power needs.

On the border on Thursday, Gazans and Gaza businessmen hurried to stock up before Cairo decided to take further action. The Egyptians would not allow cars or trucks in from Gaza, only carts drawn by animals, so the area between the Gaza fence and the Egyptian border, known as the Philadelphi route — which had been so carefully patrolled by the Israeli army before it withdrew — became an informal parking lot. There were traffic jams under the broken, bent metal and concrete barriers, and food stalls dotted the area, selling boiled sweets, sugared doughnuts, beans and nuts. Boys carried large boxes of cartons of cigarettes on their shoulders, sent to Egypt on commission by businessmen who will restock and resell. Carts were loaded with bags of cement, Chinese-made generators, foam mattresses and Nautica brand televisions. Women in black niqabs, long cloaks and scarves showing only their eyes, carried large, colorful bags of potato chips or Egyptian-made snack cakes. And many Gazans simply went to buy fresh milk, feta cheese and fill canisters with diesel, gasoline, motor oil and cooking oil. Some went to get cement to seal the graves of their loved ones, which they have had to try to protect with paving stones, metal and boards.

Egyptian businessmen sharply raised prices today, with a generator selling in Cairo for $300 being sold here for $600, said Tawfiq Nofal, a businessman who complained that transport companies were also hiking their prices to bring goods to Rafah. “People are buying but not as we expected,” he said. “Our largest aim now is the Palestinian businessmen.” A little over four gallons of diesel cost almost $19, compared to just under $15 a long walk away in El Arish, complained Hamid Kahlout. “Of course they’re exploiting us. Everyone is playing with us.” Some Egyptians complained that the local market was nearly empty.

The call to prayer was ignored as the shopping and gawking continued. Azza Kamel and her cousins were thrilled, going to the wedding of a relative who was engaged a year ago to a man from Egyptian Rafah. The wedding had to wait for the crossing to open; now it was suddenly on. Ms. Kamel and her family all support Fatah, she said, but were grateful to Hamas for this chance. “Fatah still exists,” she said. “But Hamas has eaten everything.”

Muhammad Gaber, head of patient services at the European Gaza Hospital in Rafah, said he thought the border might stay open another five days or so, to provide “temporary relief” to Gazans. “After that, the Egyptians will have to work with Hamas or maybe the European Union to reorganize the crossing,” he said. But politically, he said: “Mubarak can’t put Gazans back into the same prison. The situation has changed. The pressure on Gaza from Israel has to be lifted.”
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:10 PM   #21
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Originally posted by AchtungBono
Oh I get it....it's OUR fault, right?

My response to this declaration is: "what the hell took so long??". We should have done this right away when Hamas bullied their way into power.....and please don't try and tell me that they were "democratically" elected - as if anyone really had a CHOICE or if anyone else had a chance of standing against Hamas and making it through the elections in one piece!

We have our worst enemy at our doorstep. An enemy that is committed to our destruction, an enemy that will use any resource at their disposal to fight us, an enemy that receives financial aid which is then used to arm inself rather than provide for it's own people.

I am very sorry for the innocent peace-loving residents of Gaza who have to suffer for the actions of their terrorist government - but what else could we have done?

If any humanitarian crisis arises, it is HAMAS's doing - not ours.
just out of curiosity...

the finger pointing has lasted for... i dunno, thousands of years. ever think that "well, HE started it!" might not be the best way forward?

just an honest observation from someone who thinks both sides have looked unequivocally stupid at the expense of many innocent people.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:51 AM   #22
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96


just out of curiosity...

the finger pointing has lasted for... i dunno, thousands of years. ever think that "well, HE started it!" might not be the best way forward?

just an honest observation from someone who thinks both sides have looked unequivocally stupid at the expense of many innocent people.
Zoomerang, you are absolutely right.

Unfortunately, the finger pointing will never stop because Hamas throws rockets at Sderot and we retaliate by massive air strikes against terrorist targets, which unfortunately are interspersed(sp?) among the civillian population - resulting in civillian casualties.

Hamas says the Israelis are barbarians for killing civillians and we say that they started it by firing rockets into a civillian town, they say yes but we fired the rockets in response to your "agression", we say yes but our "agression" is in response to your terrorist attacks against us...and so on...and so on.....

The situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable! so many thousands of people suffering under an opressive, barbaric "government" that doesn't give a shit about them, forcing them to seek refuge in Egypt and elsewhere.

Not only that, our southern border is now a "free for all" zone with the added danger of terrorists crossing over from Egypt to Israel with no one to stop them - hence the extra Israeli security forces in the south.

It truly breaks my heart to see the exodus of the innocent residents of Gaza fleeing their houses just like it tears me apart to see the pictures of the wounded children of Sderot after a Qassam landed in their kindergarten or in their house.

But again, make no mistake - this humanitarian disaster in Gaza is NOT Israel's doing.

I've been reading the threads on Islamic websites about the situation in Gaza and I'm biting my lip in frustration. My every instinct wants to lash out and post the most horrible things to the hypocrites who dare to blame ISRAEL for the crisis that Hamas has brought upon the Palestinian people........

.....but I won't.

I will not sink down to the level of those people. I will be better than them. It is not worth my energy and efforts to talk to deaf people who will not listen nor to blind people who can't see what's in front of them.

I find it utterly hypocritical that there is such an uproar over the fact that the people of Gaza have to sit in darkness and they have to endure constant shelling.....hello!....have you heard about the town of Sderot?? The security council is meeting in emergency session to discuss the situation in Gaza.....Hello!.....Where has the security council been for the past 7 years in which Sderot and the neighbouring area endured thousands of Qassam rockets? Why didn't they meet in emergency session then?

Suffice it to say that the situation in Gaza was not caused by Israel, it was caused by Hamas.

Again, I will continue to bite my lip and shake in anger....but I will refrain from verbal abuse because this is not my way.....and it won't help anyway.

So say what you will, abuse me and my country, blame us for everything from the plague to the AIDS virus....I don't care. I won't be dragged into any verbal skirmishes.

I will continue to support my country's right to defend itself against the Hamas terrorists.

Make no mistake, this crisis will go on until the Palestinians finally let the coin drop and come to realize that their real enemy is Hamas and not Israel.

.....but who am I kidding?
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:19 AM   #23
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Israeli activists protest against Gaza blockade

Some 2,000 Israeli Arabs, MPs and left-wing activists gathered outside the Erez crossing into Gaza Strip on Saturday in protest at Israel's 10-day blockade of the Hamas-ruled territory.

The protesters gathered close to the barbed wire fence near the deserted border terminal with two trucks laden with foodstuffs -- including oil, water, flower, chocolate and sugar -- which they had collected.

Waving dozens of Palestinian flags and just one Israeli flag, the demonstrators called on Israel to reopen its crossings with Gaza, which it sealed on January 17 in response to rocket fire from militants.

Israeli Arab lawmaker Jamal Zhalka said that "the Israeli government bears the responsibility for the humanitarian disaster in Gaza."

Veteran Israeli left-wing activist Uri Avneri said that the goal of the rally was "to tell the Israeli public and the entire world we will not be part of this crime. We are ashamed of this siege."

Israel and the Palestinians "must strive for a complete, mutual ceasefire without Qassam (rockets), without killings, executions, sieges and starving," Avneri said.

Israel's Supreme Court was on Sunday set to hold an urgent session to weigh a petition filed by several Israeli human rights groups and NGOs against the blockade, a spokeswoman for one of the groups told AFP.

The Islamists of Hamas -- which won democratic Palestinian elections in early 2006 -- violently seized control of the Gaza Strip in June, 2007 when they routed forces loyal to president Mahmud Abbas.

Israel has progressively tightened restrictions on movement in and out of Gaza since June 2006, when militants from the territory seized an Israeli soldier in a deadly cross-border raid. He remains in captivity.

We need more people like this in Israel. Also the United States is broke, so maybe my country can't afford to give Israel any more aid. By cutting off aid to Israel it would help cut the United States deficit. The United States gives billions of dollars aid to Israel and it's one of the reasons why 9-11 happened. The United States gives around $10,000 per person in aid to Israel annually. That money could be used for Americans and to build the United States infrastructure. The United States needs to cut its aid to Israel and take care of its own domestic needs.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:38 AM   #24
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Originally posted by watergate

We need more people like this in Israel. Also the United States is broke, so maybe my country can't afford to give Israel any more aid. By cutting off aid to Israel it would help cut the United States deficit. The United States gives billions of dollars aid to Israel and it's one of the reasons why 9-11 happened. The United States gives around $10,000 per person in aid to Israel annually. That money could be used for Americans and to build the United States infrastructure. The United States needs to cut its aid to Israel and take care of its own domestic needs.
Before I reply to this....are you quoting from someone or is this your own opinion?
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:57 AM   #25
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Originally posted by AchtungBono

Suffice it to say that the situation in Gaza was not caused by Israel, it was caused by Hamas.

No, it was caused by both.

Perhaps to different extents and by different means, but by both nevertheless.

I no longer have any patience for Israel or the territories. Frankly, it's tiresome that the rest of the world is held hostage to the whims of these people and that their actions reverberate around the globe.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:08 PM   #26
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Originally posted by anitram

I no longer have any patience for Israel or the territories. Frankly, it's tiresome that the rest of the world is held hostage to the whims of these people and that their actions reverberate around the globe.


yes. i wonder if the best thing for this histerical psychodrama would be to just ignore it for a little while.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:38 PM   #27
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I no longer have any patience for Israel or the territories. Frankly, it's tiresome that the rest of the world is held hostage to the whims of these people and that their actions reverberate around the globe.
At some point--and I see this cautiously, ever-so-slowly emerging in America--there is going to have to be a principled, fair stance regarding how to solve this conflict. Admittedly, it is very tiresome, but the fact remains that the West's entire relationship with the Middle East is completely pinned to this conflict. Perhaps that's why it is so tiresome to see our elected officials continually do a dance around this fact. As long as this conflict continues to rage, it will be a rallying cry for Islamic extremism, and I don't think that there's any way to dance around that any further.

Although I'm admittedly more sympathetic to Israel, I understand that tough decisions are going to have to be made on both sides. That means that Israel will have to make some sacrifices, and the Palestinian Territories are going to have to back down on their demands, as well, not to mention that they will have to recognize Israel's existence. However, both sides have certainly done their part to prevent such compromise from happening. You have Hamas, etc. that is extremely uncompromising and relishes war, while in Israel, you have fragile legislative coalitions that fracture the minute some progress is made. Then they get plunged into a new election, a right-wing hardliner gets elected PM, then decides that he has to prove his worth by blowing up chunks of Palestinian territory. He then discovers that this attempt is just as futile as his predecessors' attempts, peace talks emerge, and once any progress is made, the coalition fractures again, new elections are called, and the process starts all over again.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Although I'm admittedly more sympathetic to Israel, I understand that tough decisions are going to have to be made on both sides. That means that Israel will have to make some sacrifices, and the Palestinian Territories are going to have to back down on their demands, as well, not to mention that they will have to recognize Israel's existence. However, both sides have certainly done their part to prevent such compromise from happening. You have Hamas, etc. that is extremely uncompromising and relishes war, while in Israel, you have fragile legislative coalitions that fracture the minute some progress is made. Then they get plunged into a new election, a right-wing hardliner gets elected PM, then decides that he has to prove his worth by blowing up chunks of Palestinian territory. He then discovers that this attempt is just as futile as his predecessors' attempts, peace talks emerge, and once any progress is made, the coalition fractures again, new elections are called, and the process starts all over again.
Melon, you have succesfully summarized the situation. Your analysis is perfect.
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