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Old 12-19-2004, 10:45 AM   #1
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Will He Ever See Justice?

....Augusto Pinochet, former brutal dictator of Chile, whose regime was responsible for the murder of thousands of dissidents and the "disappearance" of thousands of more during its nearly 20 year regime.

Here's the news story:



Stroke Hospitalizes Ex-Dictator Pinochet

Sat Dec 18, 8:41 PM ET World - AP Latin America



SANTIAGO, Chile - Gen. Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites) was hospitalized after suffering a stroke Saturday, one day after an appeals court delayed a decision on whether to uphold the former dictator's indictment and house arrest on human rights charges.


AP Photo



Doctors say Pinochet has suffered several minor strokes since 1998. The 89-year-old former ruler also has mild dementia, diabetes and arthritis, and uses a pacemaker.


On Friday, the Santiago Court of Appeals postponed until next week a decision on whether to uphold his indictment and house arrest for the alleged kidnapping of nine dissidents and the killing of one of them during his 1973-90 military regime.


Pinochet's health problems rescued him from trial three years ago on other charges.


"Gen. Pinochet suffered a new brain vascular accident with loss of consciousness," Santiago's Army Hospital said in a communique Saturday. He has developed moving and neurological problems, "but he has evolved with stable vital signs," the hospital said.


Pinochet's spokesman, retired Gen. Guillermo Garin, said the former ruler was rushed to the hospital after "he felt bad during breakfast — as if he would faint, and doctors decided to take him to the hospital."


Pinochet's motorcade entered the hospital in the upscale Providencia district under heavy guard. Minutes later, his wife, Lucia Hiriart, and army commander Gen. Emilio Cheyre also entered, along with several other Pinochet relatives.


Pinochet had an unusually active day Friday. He left his country residence at Los Boldos, where he would serve out his house arrest if the court upholds the order by Judge Juan Guzman, and traveled the 80 miles to Santiago, where he visited his office, saw his dentist and later met with supporters.


This guy has evaded several attempts to bring him to justice regarding the crimes against humanity that he was directly or indirectly involved in while he brutalized the Chilean economy and political democracy in Chile.

He has been coddled by international governments around the world.

I just want to know when will he see justice (ala Saddam Hussein) and PAY FOR THE CRIMES HE HAS COMMITTED AGAINST HIS OWN COUNTRY?

I will never forget Bono's admonition of Pinochet during the Popmart tour : General Pinochet,tell these women - where are their children?

LOVE IS BIGGER THAN US....
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:05 AM   #2
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Thanks for posting this Jamilla. It's a very important moment in history, and he MUST be brought to justice.
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:10 AM   #3
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This guy is a .
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Old 12-19-2004, 12:02 PM   #4
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If there is justice in this world, he must be brought to justice. Too long have people stood on the fence, having the ideas of justice blurred by good intentions and idle politics of the most reprehensible kind. Too long have we had so-called 'world leaders' supporting this wretched man's cause and turning a blind eye on what this man put his country through, to the sheer amount of pain he has brought to so many people.

I think on Augusto Pinochet, a man who means so much to me politically and personally (and almost all is negative), and I think of not only the injustices he stands for, but the ridiculous world of politics that have allowed him to escape justice thus far. I think of Thatcher. I think of Straw. I think of Reagan. I think of an ineffective and frankly flaccid justice system and it brings me nothing but rage.

I know I should not hate, but it is so so hard for a few individuals. He is one of them.

If there is such a thing as justice in this world, he will be brought to justice.

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Old 12-19-2004, 12:07 PM   #5
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Amen Ant!
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:03 PM   #6
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These families need to know what really happened to thier children so they can start the healing process and move on to the next chapter in their lives.

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Old 12-19-2004, 02:17 PM   #7
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I'd say since he is 89 years old and in poor health he will probably be facing justice pretty soon. It just won't be on this Earth.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony


I think of Thatcher. I think of Straw. I think of Reagan.
I think of Kissinger.
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Old 12-19-2004, 07:31 PM   #9
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Actually, I agree, Bono's Shades.

The "judgment" that we think we evade in this life does catch up with us down the eternal road.

Pinochet will see his day - even if we don't.

Thanks, everyone - it's good to see people who have a real sense of history. Let's not forget that the head of the CIA who helped to plan this horrific coup d'etat in Chile was George H. Bush (Dubya's dad), wasn't it?

A lot of people will see justice....

MOTHERS OF THE DISAPPEARED....
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Old 12-19-2004, 09:00 PM   #10
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''A thousand years of footsteps may tread this space
but the blood of those who died here will not be wiped away
and the hour of their death will not be forgotten
though 1000s of voices break the silence''

~ Pablo Neruda
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:04 AM   #11
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Well said, joyfulgirl - I too think of Kissinger, not to mention a long list of other culprits behind the scene. Indeed, the list is long and exhaustive, and it but a mere tragedy that these won't be seeing justice.

Jamila; maybe you are right, I wish my faith could be as certain as that. But, God help me, I need something more substantial. I need something other, and God knows the relatives of all those who disappeared needs exactly that, too.

Ant.
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:10 AM   #12
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At least right wingers abroad dont stick his face on t-shirts and coffe mugs saying "viva counter-revolution" as the left does with a certain murderous Soviet thug from Latin America. Give the old bastard hell for his remaining years - it's the only chance left.
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:21 AM   #13
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True. Many members of the left do take it upon themselves to galavant their pseudo-social consciences, if you ask me I even take great issue with those awful Che Gueverra shirts (I have always despised the man).

However, it is surprising to see many right wingers following the creed of dear Margaret Thatcher, who to many (at least in Britain) is still the paragon of modern Conservatism, and who has stood by her great friends, defeding Pinochet's cause time and time again, and consistently blurring the line between right and wrong, between murder and order.

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Old 12-20-2004, 06:01 AM   #14
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Yeah, it's depressing for me to see my fellow lefties embrace a thug just because he can spout out catchy radical slogans and hates the "right people". This is one thing that has me burned out on politics right now, it's tough to tell who I should believe these days. Good grief, we need some fresh blood in the liberal ranks big time. All of these people and ideas from the past are dated and irrelevant.
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:07 AM   #15
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I don't want this thread to lose its focus: the focus is on the murderous, illegal CIA-backed coup d'etat in Chile headed by Pinochet which overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.

For those of you who do not remember Victor Jara, the great Chilean poet and songwriter who Bono immemoralizes in "One Tree Hill" and a victim of these heinous thugs - let me introduce him to you:

Victor Jara
words by Adrian Mitchell, music by Arlo Guthrie

Victor Jara of Chile
Lived like a shooting star
He fought for the people of Chile
With his songs and his guitar
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Victor Jara was a peasant
He worked from a few years old
He sat upon his father's plow
And watched the earth unfold
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Now when the neighbors had a wedding
Or one of their children died
His mother sang all night for them
With Victor by her side
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He grew up to be a fighter
Against the people's wrongs
He listened to their grief and joy
And turned them into songs
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He sang about the copper miners
And those who worked the land
He sang about the factory workers
And they knew he was their man
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

He campaigned for Allende
Working night and day
He sang "Take hold of your brothers hand
You know the future begins today"
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Then the generals seized Chile
They arrested Victor then
They caged him in a stadium
With five-thousand frightened men
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Victor stood in the stadium
His voice was brave and strong
And he sang for his fellow prisoners
Till the guards cut short his song
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

They broke the bones in both his hands
They beat him on the head
They tore him with electric shocks
And then they shot him dead
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong

Repeat first verse

©1977, 1990 by by Adrian Mitchell & Arlo Guthrie


Excellent websites to learn about Victor Jara:

http://www.msu.edu/~chapmanb/jara/eindex.html

http://www.sreyes.org/vjindex.htm

Let's focus on Justice - not on politicising this tragedy.
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