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Old 12-30-2007, 10:22 PM   #46
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Originally posted by financeguy


Because you implied that Olberman listeners are terrorists.

If you can't prove that you've enlisted, you yourself must be one.

(See how it works?)
My Olbermann claim was in response to the bogus claim that Limbaugh's audience is basically nothing but racists. My reply was that viewers of Olbermann don't care if we get attacked again, due to their defending of the man last spring regarding his crazy Fort Dix comments.

Both claims are ridiculous, but you see how the same logic was applied?
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:32 PM   #47
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Originally posted by 2861U2


My Olbermann claim was in response to the bogus claim that Limbaugh's audience is basically nothing but racists. My reply was that viewers of Olbermann don't care if we get attacked again, due to their defending of the man last spring regarding his crazy Fort Dix comments.

Both claims are ridiculous, but you see how the same logic was applied?
Assiging support for terrorism to a broad mass of listeners is surely a much more serious slander than assigning racist attitudes.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:35 PM   #48
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Assiging support for terrorism to a broad mass of listeners is surely a much more serious slander than assigning racist attitudes.
I don't see too much of a difference. I would hate to be falsely labeled as either of those, especially for doing something as harmless as listening to a radio program.
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:06 AM   #49
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I would be careful here. I don't think most of the "Rush crowd" are racists. I don't like Obama for a number of reasons, but the color of his skin has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I wouldn't argue that most "Rush" listeners would describe themselves as racist. But just becaues you don't think of yourself as a racist doesn't mean you aren't one.

The fact is NOBODY wants to be known as a racist today--it's become the worst possible insult--but the fact remains that racism is a part of life in America and around the world. Irvine summarized several racially charged strategies used by the Republican party in recent years--they are aimed at SOMEONE, and they must work otherwise they wouldn't be using them. Deep summarized a list of racist statements that Rush Limbaugh has made in recent years. what do you make of those quotes? Isolated incidences? Taken out of context?

Or are they "not racist, just true." For that you see, is the defense employed by most racists in America today. It's not racist if you're just telling the truth right? Isn't that what Limbaugh made his mint on? Telling it like it is? Not sucking up to the weepy, whiny politically-correct lefties and telling the truth?

"Come on, these welfare blacks that's what they do. Loot and steal! Limbaugh's just telling the truth!"

Racism, my friend.

Oh, and I don't think this is off-topic at all. The question is Why the Democrats will (or won't) win this year and I maintain that that one of the reasons they won't is that too many Americans are buying into a "Rush" mentality--one that includes racism--and that will be used to sink the Dems if either Clinton or Obama gets the nomination. I WILL dig this thread if Obama gets the nomination when Limbaugh and friends start making veiled racist statments. And I promise you. They will.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:40 AM   #50
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Limbaugh is not a racist. If he truly were, I don't think he would have any black friends, but he does. You need to listen to him with a bit of humor. Some of the things he has said, I certainly wouldn't have said. But are they racist? I don't think so, despite there being (yeah, I'll say it) degrees of truth to some of his remarks. They might be a little child and insensitive, but they're childish and insensitive at worst. Our society has become so freakin' PC it's amazing.

Question: If I was to say that I want a secure southern border, does that mean I hate mexicans?
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:53 AM   #51
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Limbaugh is not a racist. If he truly were, I don't think he would have any black friends, but he does. You need to listen to him with a bit of humor. Some of the things he has said, I certainly wouldn't have said. But are they racist? I don't think so, despite there being (yeah, I'll say it) degrees of truth to some of his remarks. They might be a little child and insensitive, but they're childish and insensitive at worst. Our society has become so freakin' PC it's amazing.

Question: If I was to say that I want a secure southern border, does that mean I hate mexicans?
Bullshit.

Read the quotes Deep posted. Some of those I'd never heard before.

It's nothing to do with being overly politically correct. Those aren't just childish and insensitive. They're racist. Some of them are pretty severely racist.

It's a complete and total cop out to chalk up his comments to "childishness and insensitivity" and the backlish to "society becoming freakin' PC."
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:22 AM   #52
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(without reading the other replies)

I'm just sorry that Bush can't be elected again.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:56 AM   #53
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Limbaugh is not a racist. If he truly were, I don't think he would have any black friends, but he does
Plenty of racists have plenty of black friends.

I don't think he's funny at all, I guess I have no sense of humor. I just think he's ignorant and lame.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:13 AM   #54
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1199...googlenews_wsj


Democratic Voters' Fervor
Stirs Republican Worries
By JONATHAN KAUFMAN, ALEX FRANGOS and AMY CHOZICK
December 31, 2007; Page A1

As presidential hopefuls from both parties rally support across Iowa ahead of Thursday's caucuses, Democratic voters are showing greater fervor for the race than their Republican counterparts, a difference that could have repercussions throughout the 2008 campaign.

At its simplest, there is a political energy gap. Democrats appear to be more fired up about their party nominating contest than are Republicans. Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire have been turning out at rallies in greater numbers than Republicans and giving more money to candidates. In Iowa, polls indicate Democrats will be attending the Thursday night caucuses in record numbers.

"There seems to be a little more juice on the Democratic side," says Republican pollster Bill McInturff.

"Republicans have a lot of work to do to get to the intensity level Democrats are at today," agrees Terry Nelson, a Republican strategist who previously headed the campaign of Arizona Sen. John McCain

PRIMARY JAM



See dates and results from previous primaries, and the 2008 primary calendar.
RELATED READING


• Romney Claws Back in Iowa Polls
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• Complete Coverage: Campaign 2008That's critical because, although the presidential nominating contest is just getting under way, Republicans are worried the Democrats' greater enthusiasm could allow them to sustain their wide national lead in overall fund raising. And money will play a big role in the outcome of November's general election.

Some Republicans also worry that they could end up having trouble rallying around their party's eventual nominee, a problem faced in recent years by the often-fractious Democrats. This time, by contrast, Democratic voters nationally are telling pollsters they like their field of candidates better than Republicans say they like theirs.

Mr. McInturff compares this year's Democrats to the Republicans in 2000 -- the last time the presidential race was contested in both parties. "Republican primary voters were very cranked up because Bill Clinton put their teeth on edge, and they couldn't wait to elect a new president," he says.

While acknowledging that Republicans seem to be lagging by several measures, many party insiders say all the party needs to galvanize its voters is time -- and the right candidate.

"I just had someone tell me that if we can get Mike Huckabee back here we could get 1,500 people," says Bob Vander Plaats, Mr. Huckabee's Iowa chairman, after an event in Davenport that attracted a standing-room-only crowd of 100 people.

Mr. McCain has also been drawing more enthusiastic Republican crowds in recent days in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

More Passion

Democratic voters are showing more passion for the race in part due to frustration that their party has been out of the White House for eight years. But their fervor also reflects their general approval of the party's three front-runners. Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Barack Obama and former Sen. John Edwards, who are locked in a tight battle in Iowa, New Hampshire and elsewhere, broadly agree on most important issues. That suggests that their supporters would unite around the eventual nominee.

By contrast the Republican field is deeply divided, with candidates attacking each other over social issues, tax policies and immigration.

Asked if they could support a Democratic candidate "with enthusiasm" in November, as opposed to "with reservations," or depending on the opponent, half of Democratic voters say they could support Mrs. Clinton enthusiastically, according to the latest Wall Street Journal/NBC poll. Almost the same number said they could support Mr. Obama enthusiastically and 36% Mr. Edwards.

Among Republicans, the top-rated candidate is former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, with 35 % of Republican voters saying they could back him enthusiastically. Keenness for the other Republican candidates trails off after that.

So far, Iowans who have donated $200 or more to the presidential race have given Democrats a total of more than $503,000, compared with $376,000 to Republicans. That's a sharp reversal from 2000 when Iowa residents had given $205,000 in $200-or-more donations to Republican candidates and just $51,000 to Democrats.

The Iowa figures mirror the big lead Democratic presidential candidates have established in overall fund raising nationally. Democrats have so far raised $223 million, compared with $152 million for Republican candidates.

Behind Republican's uneasiness are voters like Wes Von Schlotterback of Des Moines. Mr. Von Schlotterback served twice in past elections as a county chairman for Republican presidential candidate Steve Forbes. But this time he says he plans to stay home the night of the caucuses for lack of any good choices. He says he sees the same lack of enthusiasm among many of his Republican friends.

"For the first time ever I'm thinking of voting for a Democrat -- for Obama," he says. He describes the Illinois senator as "genuine."

Democrat Kathleen Clark, a 68-year-old retiree who supports Sen. Clinton says she doesn't typically go to the caucuses, but this year she will. She also plans to bring a friend with her. Concern about rising medical costs is driving her to participate. "We can barely make ends meet" because of rising prescription-drug costs, she says.

Mr. Von Schlotterback ticks off the flaws of the Republican field. Mr. Romney sometimes talks like a "used-car salesman," he says. He likes former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson's conservative politics, but not his languid style.

"We have eight good ones, and they don't have any good ones. That's why the Republicans aren't excited," says Democrat Ruth Anne Petrak, a Des Moines precinct captain for candidate Bill Richardson.

"There's tremendous energy around change, and that change involves Democrats," says Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton's strategist and pollster. The Republicans, says Mr. Penn, suffer from "the very rare event when the president is universally disliked and leaving the party without a successor."

In Iowa, that may mean more Democrats showing up for the caucuses this week and turning out to vote in November. An Iowa State University Poll says as many as 150,000 Democrats could attend the caucuses, a 20% jump from 2004 -- though caucus turnout can be affected by a variety of factors, including the weather. Republican turnout is expected to be about the same as 2000, the last contested Republican race, at around 87,000, though the poll suggests it could slip.

The intensity gap could narrow as voters nationally begin to focus more on the election and more states begin their primary voting. "If it was October 2008, I would be worried," says Mr. Nelson, the Republican strategist. "In order to win we have to have a positive vision for the country. There is plenty of time for that."

Iowa has turned out to be a much more competitive and important race for the Democrats than for the Republicans. The three Democratic front-runners have poured huge amounts of resources into the state and remain locked in a three-way dead heat.

Iowa Forces

Democratic candidates have spent a total of 300 days campaigning in Iowa, about 100 more days than Republican candidates. Democrats this fall had 573 paid staffers in the state, more than four times the 126 paid Republican staffers, according to the Des Moines Register.

On the Republican side, the contest has become a battle between Mr. Romney and former Arkansas Gov. Huckabee, with the other candidates shifting resources to states viewed as more favorable to them -- Mr. McCain to New Hampshire and Rudy Giuliani to Florida and to several states that vote Feb. 5. If one of the Republican candidates catches fire, voter enthusiasm could surge. Republicans also say the nomination of Mrs. Clinton, deeply unpopular among Republicans, could energize Republican voters. "There's nothing like not liking your opponent for increasing your enthusiasm," says Mr. McInturff, the Republican pollster.

Energy Gap

But there are signs that an energy gap is turning up elsewhere as well. When Mr. McCain recently made a campaign stop at Clemson University in South Carolina, which holds its primary Jan. 26, there was a "a mood of despair and despondency" among the crowd, says David Woodard, a Clemson political-science professor who is also a Republican strategist.

Mr. Woodard says that when Mr. McCain visited Clemson during the 2000 campaign "there was electricity like before a football game -- many students got off early from class, the room was packed before he arrived, he got wild applause."

This time, says Mr. Woodard, Mr. McCain, appearing before a smaller crowd, received polite applause when he walked in and no further applause until the end of his speech.

Three weeks ago, Mr. Woodard attended a rally held by Mr. Obama with talk-show host Oprah Winfrey at the University of South Carolina's football stadium. It drew 28,000 people. "I don't think we have ever had an event that drew so many people," says Mr. Woodard

I don't believe this reflects anything other than today. I think it will fluctuate as the year goes on. But the article pleases me--for today.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:41 AM   #55
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I so hope Romney doesn't win Iowa. He's just another Bush. He's a dumb liar.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:01 PM   #56
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I'm just sorry that Bush can't be elected again.
And I'm glad you aren't an american voter.
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:39 PM   #57
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And I'm glad you aren't an american voter.
amen to that!
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:50 PM   #58
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They will win because Barack Obama is the man.
Obama is not looking good in the dying days.
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:39 PM   #59
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considering that Rush was detained coming back from the Dominican Republic -- which has a *booming* underaged sex trade -- with all sorts of viagra in his bag, i'd say you're right and that he loves himself some black people.
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:46 AM   #60
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Limbaugh is not a racist. If he truly were, I don't think he would have any black friends, but he does.
Some of my closest friends and their families growing up were virulent racists.:

My friends dad joked about running down a n----r on the street. I sat in the back of the car he was driving, petrified.

My friends mocked a van of black people that drove past us. They remembered my presence and quickly apologized, assuring me that they didn't mean me. I wasn't like "them."

These were not isolated incidents--they were life, growing up with mostly white friends in the southern United States. They LIKED me, you see. It helped that I didn't "talk" black, liked "white" music, and don't know enough--or have the guts--to complain about what I heard and saw from time to time. I was their friend, their token black friend that proved they weren't racist. (Though, it was a given that I wouldn't be allowed to date any of their women though. Friendship was great. Dating? No way in hell).

So, no. Just becaues you have black friends doesn't mean you aren't racist.

Given all of the above, I'd say that the Democratic candidates with the best shot would be in order:

Edwards
Obama
Clinton
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