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Old 05-22-2003, 07:10 PM   #16
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Bulldozer Accident
The media presents a flag-burning American as a peace hero, and ignores important IDF anti-smuggling activities.



American college student Rachel Corrie was tragically killed on Sunday when she fell down as an IDF bulldozer destroyed a house in Gaza.

The bulldozer was part of an operation to eliminate tunnels used by Palestinian terrorists to illegally smuggle weapons from Egypt into Gaza.

Corrie apparently stood atop a mound of dirt as the bulldozer approached the house, but then fell backward, tumbling down the mound and out of sight. The bulldozer continued and accidentally crushed her.

The IDF Spokesman said that soldiers repeatedly warned demonstrators to keep a safe distance.

Corrie was a volunteer with the International Solidarity Movement. She was known for anti-Israel and anti-American activities, as this photo from Gaza (http://www.honestreporting.com/graph...les/corrie.jpg) shows Corrie burning an American flag, while Palestinian children look on.

(In general, we wonder on what basis the International Solidarity Movement justifies shielding a house used for weapons smuggling.)

The Washington Post (http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...2003Mar16.html) notes two important points:

1) soldiers driving an armored bulldozer have limited visibility because of the narrow window.

2) One of the ISM founders admits the protesters might not have been as disciplined in their protest as they should have been.

Most media reports failed to mention that the IDF bulldozer was looking for smuggling tunnels. Instead, reports described the house sympathetically as "the home of a Gazan doctor."

And the entire mainstream media neglected to mention Corrie's anti-American activities and flag-burning.

HonestReporting encourages members to monitor your local media to see how they are reporting the circumstances of Corrie's unfortunate death, and her personal background.

http://www.honestreporting.com/artic...r_Accident.asp
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:15 PM   #17
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Based on your description above, it appears the press may have been more sympathetic to Ms. Corrie than Ms. Klien suggests.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:22 PM   #18
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Dread,

Those pictures look about as real as the ones sicy does with photo shop.


The article you posted is from a bias site.

It is difficult to give it any credibility.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:43 PM   #19
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It is difficult to give Ms. Klein any credibility as well, having visited her site and read it. I can post other links as well, including eyewitness accounts of the fact that Rachel decided to climb forward onto the bulldozer, instead of move to the side or away from it. According to one of her friends in the ISM, she was climbing up onto the bucket and instead fell under it. I did not post those because they were published in publications that are from Israel.

Fact is, the pictures of Rachel that were portrayed as having been taken just minutes before the aweful incident, were not actually taken, minutes before the incident, but hours before the incident.

Both sides play the propaganda game.

I am curious though, what makes my article biased? What makes mine any more biased than miss Klein. Also, please, demonstrate how my pictures are a fake? There are others that come from the same incident.
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:08 PM   #20
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One thing, for everyone, I view Rachel as a person who stood up for what she believed in. I respect that and I view her death as a God awful thing to have happened.

That said there are two sides to every story...but that does not bring her back, nor does it change the fact that she is dead.
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:26 PM   #21
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From the Washington Post article cited by Dreadsox:

Quote:
"It's possible they [the protesters] were not as disciplined as we would have liked," Thom Saffold, a founder and organizer of the International Solidarity Movement, said in a telephone interview from the group's base in Ann Arbor, Mich. "But we're like a peace army. Generals send young men and women off to operations, and some die."
I wonder if this is a prevailing attitude among organizers of the peace movement? It sounded a tad bit callous to me.
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:28 PM   #22
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It also points to the fact that one of the leaders of their own organization felt that their own protestors were not acting responsibly in this situation.
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:53 PM   #23
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One more thing..... I find Ms. Klein to be very disrespectful of PFC Lynch, by calling her Pte. She is a Private First Class. Kind of odd that she changes her correct rank in her article. I also find her tone condescending and nasty when she says:

Unlike Pte. Lynch, Ms. Corrie did not set out to engage in combat; she went to try to thwart it.



Miss Klein makes reference to the BBC story. The reporter of the story did a very nice backpedal on CNN. Here is the transcript:

HARRIS: Is it your belief right now based upon your investigation that this rescue of Lynch was in any way a staged event and not real?

KAMPFNER: No. First things first. Credit where it is due. The Americans had a legitimate right in getting Lynch out of the hospital in Nasiriya. They had no way of knowing what her fate was, whether she was being well or badly treated.

So lets talk about BIAS.

Disrespecting PFC Lynch by calling her Private Lynch. Trivilizing the fact that PFC Lynch was serving her country and working to help liberate an oppressed nation, a cause which is no no way shape or form, less noble or important than the cause of Ms. Corrie.


Peace
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Old 05-22-2003, 09:30 PM   #24
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BonoVoxSupastar,

"Sting, when your government speaks before the nation and the UN saying it has intelligence that Iraq has in their poccesion of WMD and they use that as a reason to persuade the people to go to war, then I would say we deserve to know if this "intelligence" was fabricated. If they just used the resolutions as their reason then yes MAYBE they wouldn't be required to prove anything, but they didn't they said they had evidence. Now show us. How are we suppose to trust our "intelligence" for now on if they don't prove it?"

"Now can we get back to the topic at hand?"

Regardless of what some government officials may have or may not of said, the official line of the US government and the United Nations itself is that it is not incumbent upon any member state to prove that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, it is incumbent upon Iraq to prove that they do not have weapons of mass destruction.

It is the media that has unfortunately suggested that the main reason for military action in Iraq is classified proof that Iraq has WMD. There may in fact be classified proof that shows Iraq did at one time, months or a year ago, had WMD. But the main line of this administration has been the record of what Iraq had back in 1998 which NO one disputes, not even the Iraqi's themselves. Failure to give such WMD up or prove it was destroyed in the years from 1998-2002 is all member states need to be authorized to take military action against Iraq.

Much of the proof that the intelligence community had may be months old or older and with Iraq having since destroyed and removed such evidence to an unknown location. This is why it is difficult or impossible to match up prior evidence with evidence currently on the ground. In addition, human intelligence that may have had proof may have been found and murdered by Saddam's security agents. Its happened many times before.

What is relevant though is what Iraq's obligations are vs. the obligations of the international community in regards to any breech of the 1991 ceacefire agreement.

There is not a single country or the UN itself that would claim that after 12 years, Iraq had complied with all its obligations and answered all the questions and provided all the evidence and materials of its WMD program. Any form of non-compliance by Iraq is all member states needed to be authorized to take military action. Saddam was never given 3,6, or 9 strikes and your out program. The requirements of the resolutions and the 1991 ceacefire were unconditional.

oh and the above was just answering a question posed by you to me.
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Old 05-22-2003, 09:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am curious though, what makes my article biased? What makes mine any more biased than miss Klein. Also, please, demonstrate how my pictures are a fake? There are others that come from the same incident.
Silly Rabbit! Don't you know ANYTHING????

Biased = anything that questions the left.

Fair, straightforward journalism = left-leaning media publications.

Get with the program!

~U2Alabama
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Unlike Pte. Lynch, Ms. Corrie did not set out to engage in combat; she went to try to thwart it. Along with fellow mem­bers of the International Solidarity Movement, she believed that the Israeli military's incursions could be slowed by the presence of highly visible "interna­tionals," that Israel would not want the diplomatic or media scandals that would result if it started shooting U.S. and Brit­ish college students.
Ms. Klein paints a picture of a peace loving young woman. She paints a picture of a woman that believed in the non-violent approach to slow the conflict down.

Here are Ms. Corrie's own words on the topic of Palestinian fighters/terrorists:

Quote:
Courage And More Martyrs
Monday, 10 February 2003, 9:52 am
Article: International Solidarity Movement


Courage And More Martyrs
I was in the centre of Nablus yesterday, about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, when a youth was shot and killed by the IOF. He is SAMER ZORBHA, aged 18, a student at the High School in Nablus. He was shot twice, one bullet to the shoulder and lung, a favourite target, another to the side of the head. Another very seriously shot and injured and another injured I don't know how badly. Samer is the best friend of a beautiful young Volunteer at the UPMRC Medical Relief Centre, Mohamed al Aseel, and we are feeling his loss with anger as well as grief.

In retaliation for this murderous attack, fighters last night offered their life for their friend and killed two of the illegal occupying force, and injuring another. Two young fighters were killed and I don't yet know the extent of other injuries.
Ms. Corrie Continues:

Quote:
I would also like to ask you, and those to whom you pass this on, to think about the relative positions of the fighters and occupiers in this monumentally unequal struggle. While the huge force of Israelis have every technical aid invented by the US war machine, the few young fighters have NOTHING BUT THEIR WEAPON (and this not the most modern) - no helmet, bullet proof vest, radio contact or other protection. No back-up, no plane, helicopter, tank, APC, searchlight, dogs, flares, ambulance or refuge - put all the Israeli/American propaganda aside for a few minutes and try to imagine, please, the courage it requires to do what these young fighters do, knowing that the odds are against escape and that, every time they do succeed in evading death, the odds against a further survival are shortened. Even if the operation is a success the price is always high.
Yes she writes about the courage of the TERRORISTS. They were TERRORISTS. One of the two TERRORISTS that she writes of with such admiration was wearing a suicide belt. Here are the statistics from the morning of February 10, 1993:

February 10: A drive-by terrorist shooting at the entrance to the IDF Southern Command base in Be’er Sheva killed two female soldiers and injured four others. One of the Palestinian terrorists was killed at the scene; the second, wearing an explosives belt, fled in the direction of a nearby school when he was shot and killed by a soldier and police officer. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack. This is the attack she writes about in her journal. These friends of hers.

You accuse me of posting biased articles. Ms. Klein, clearly has her own agenda with this article.

Peace
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Old 05-23-2003, 10:31 AM   #27
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Sorry, I want to correct something I typed so late last night. I meant February 10, 2003. How 1993 popped out of my sleepy brain is beyond me.
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Old 05-23-2003, 03:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
From the Washington Post article cited by Dreadsox:



I wonder if this is a prevailing attitude among organizers of the peace movement? It sounded a tad bit callous to me.

Oh, no, I don't think so. I've never been in a group that tolerated the idea that any of our protesters should be hurt or killed, and this statement shocks me. I have never been in a group whose members burned American flags or anything like this, either. I represented Oxfam as a protester and I'll be damned if any of us had anything to do with this stuff. I would also like to put it on record that we're not saying stuff like this about Jessica Lynch, and you're right, Dread, they should have used her proper title. She didn't do anything wrong. I do think that perhaps the politicians wanted to manipulate her but it wasn't her fault. She was just doing her job. She's from a poor state, West Virginia, from an area that has 30% unemployment, and she wanted to get money for school.
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Old 05-23-2003, 04:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Back to the original topic:

It really shouldn't be surprising that the US government doesn't portray Ms. Corrie as a "hero".
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


What was the question? Why isn't the government making a hero out of her

I did not see that question in the article, MSNBC is not the government.


Quote:
So who is a hero? During the war on Iraq, some of Ms. Corrie's friends e-mailed her picture to MSNBC asking that it be included on the station's "wall of heroes," along with Pte. Lynch. The sta­tion didn't comply, but Ms. Corrie is being honoured in other ways. Her fam­ily has received more than 10,000 letters of support, communities across the country have organized dozens of me­morials, and children all over the occupied territories are being named Rachel. It's not a made-for-TV kind of tribute, but perhaps that's for the best.


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Old 05-23-2003, 04:16 PM   #30
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By the way Deep, the flag burning picture, along with others including her journal post about her activities on that day, were also displayed on numerous sites that have made a hero of Rachel. SO please don't dismiss it as right wing propaganda. She was no fan of the United States governement.

Oh, one more thing:

Quote:
Do they? Ms. Corrie's death was met with almost total official silence, despite the fact that witnesses claim it was a de­liberate act. Mr. Bush has said nothing about a U.S. citizen being killed by a U.S.-made bulldozer bought with U.S. tax dollars.
I think it is clear the author feels that the United States Governement has not done enough to achknowledge her.
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