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Old 02-26-2004, 07:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Although I can't say that I even have any conservative friends, I do know that a LOT of my friends' Republican family members will not be voting for Bush again. One of them voted for Bush in 2000 but feels betrayed because the library that he ran was shut down after he refused to turn over records under the Patriot Act--you know, one of those incidents that people say could never happen to them. Well, it happens.
It should have been shut down. He broke the law by not turning over records. End of story. Patriot Act is the law of the land.
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:02 PM   #32
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Patriot Act is the law of the land
I thought the Constitution is the law of the land.
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:08 PM   #33
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Headache,
You misunderstood what I said completely.
Quote:
On November 26, 2001, the National Board of Economic Research officially announced that the recession started in March 2001.
Let's go over this quote bit by bit:
Quote:
On November 26, 2001,
This means that on this date November 26th...
Quote:
the National Board of Economic Research officially announced
That means the NBER came out on November 26th and officially announced...
Quote:
that the recession started in March 2001.
Ok, are we clear now that I never stated that the recession started overnight?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoocoustic
1) Pull ourselves out of a recession he inherited from Clinton (recession = 2 consectuive quarters of negative growth, this began in 2000) and into favorable times economically as manufacturing and production are currently skyrocketing.
This was the post I was responding to. Don't you mean to direct your comment about economic downturn to him?
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


It should have been shut down. He broke the law by not turning over records. End of story. Patriot Act is the law of the land.
He understands that. He understands quite well that Big Brother is watching. And he will never vote for a conservative candidate ever again.
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:17 PM   #35
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[Q]
As I said before, a Democratic president would have reacted in the same way. Afghanistan was the easiest decision for Bush to make because 95% of the people wanted Afghanistan to be taken out. Making no-brainer decisions does not a great leader make, or something.[/Q]

Definitely. Clinton definitely reacted that way after the first bombing of the trade center. The bombing of the cole, the bombing of....ect...Yep He really did a GREAT JOB going after Al-Qaeda. Maybe if he had....instead of Bombing an Asprin factory to take the heat off him during the day his taped deposition came out, we would not have had 9/11. Saying a Democrat would have done the same thing is horse dung. There were 8 years of Democratic evidence that this is not true.



[Q]Joyfulgirl is right: Iraq is no freer now than it was under Hussein. Adding to her remarks, it's a fact that dozens of Iraqi police and officials die every week. Sure, Saddam was evil, but his people are the ones paying for it now. Capturing their dictator = Mission accomplished? I'd say Mission Unnecessary. Better yet, Mission Totally Fabricated.[/Q]

Filling the void of a Despot after 20 + years is never easy. To say the entire mission is fabricated is to ignore the violations of resolutions that have accumulated since the last Gulf War. "Sure Saddam was evil" how flippant of you. To equate the occupation, made LAWFUL by two UN Resolutions, and to equate the occupation as being NO BETTER than Saddam is crap. It is insulting to anyone who serves in the service and is over there doing their job to protect not only their fellow servicemen and women, but Iraqi people as well.

Mission unecessary my ass. Mission fabricated, only if you believe WMD was the only reason for war.

[Q]Also, for us to spend billions of taxpayer money on reconstructing a country that will most likely oppose us in 10 years does not sit well with me. [/B][/QUOTE]

The USA helped to rebuild Europe and Japan after WWII. Apparently Nation Building worked there.
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:27 PM   #36
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Bush & Kerry makes no difference, they are both members of the satanic skull & bones.

If the americans on here still think some guy who apparently lives in a cave masterminded 9/11, you are all mad.

I predict Bin Laden will be paraded some time soon or closer to the election.

If you think the government isnt capable of doing or thinking such a deed may I suggest you do a search online for OPERATION NORTHWOODS CUBA.

Im wide awake , are you?
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Definitely. Clinton definitely reacted that way after the first bombing of the trade center. The bombing of the cole, the bombing of....ect...Yep He really did a GREAT JOB going after Al-Qaeda. Maybe if he had....instead of Bombing an Asprin factory to take the heat off him during the day his taped deposition came out, we would not have had 9/11. Saying a Democrat would have done the same thing is horse dung. There were 8 years of Democratic evidence that this is not true.
it's posts like this that make you the only red sox fan i actually like

and yeah celtic... bin laden wasn't the "mastermind" of 9/11 so to speak. khalid shaikh mohammed and ramzi binalshibh planned the attacks, along with help from mohammed atta, while living in hamburg, germany. they were, however, members of the al qaeda network, which is run by that guy in the cave... and that guy in the cave did have prior knowledge to the attacks, even if he wasn't "the mastermind."
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Old 02-26-2004, 09:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by GibsonExplorer

I thought the Constitution is the law of the land.


OK..back to fourth grade....

The Constitution gave the Congress the power to legislate.
The Congress passed the Patriot Act.

The Contitution gave the President the right to sign it into law, veto it, or not sign it making it law.
The President signed it.

Now, until the Supreme Court takes a case and finds the law in violation of the Constituion.....it is the LAW.
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:18 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
Now you are mistaken... a recession doesn't become a recession overnight... the economic downturn (better wording for ya?) started towards the end of the Clinton years, just like the economic downturn of the early 90s started in the tail end of the reagan years
To be fair on both regards, Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton started a long line of deregulation to the point that government has little to do with starting recessions. In fact, the dot-com economy of the 1990s was (and still is) an economy with a false bottom with nothing inside, and, ultimately, showed that "economic prosperity" was really nothing more than investor confidence.

The demise of the windfall profits tax (a heavy tax on excessive corporate profits that was designed to force companies to either reinvest heavily into themselves or to pay their workers a lot to avoid paying the tax) in the 1980s has certainly inflated corporate profits, but ruined the last incentive that business ever had for self-investment or to raise wages. Now it is more profitable to risk bankruptcy, as the lack of self-investment incentive has made companies very apt to be ruined in stock panics.

Now what a government does *during* a recession makes the difference, and, frankly, I don't think Bush has the support. Sure, you will have your die-hard Republicans, and 42% statistically are (just like 42% are statistically Democrats). But looking between the lines, I don't think that most people really are satisfied with his economic performance at all. The usually belligerent Yahoo! forums were nearly unanimous in disgust with comments from Greenspan that the solution was to "reeducate" everyone whose job was shipped abroad. But, when it is jobs that, only a year or two ago, did require higher education (like Information Technology and Computer Science jobs), then what is everyone who is not a billionaire like Bill Gates or has a rich and powerful daddy supposed to do?

And that's where Bush's leadership is lacking. His only response are tax cuts that are directed to the wealthy--and ask the investment world, they're direct enough to tell you that the mega wealthy have done very well during the Bush years, while the rest of us are wondering where the next job is going to come from. I was visionary enough to predict this while getting my college education; basically, any job that isn't creativity-dependent will, inevitably, be shipped abroad, where Americans will never be able to compete with nations that have abominable living standards and low wages.

Melon
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Now, until the Supreme Court takes a case and finds the law in violation of the Constituion.....it is the LAW.
The Supreme Court is too corrupt to take it on. I doubt the Founding Fathers ever envisioned that the judiciary could be stacked full of partisan ideologues, so as to fully undermine the delicate Separation of Powers that is the only thing that separates us from a faux-democracy like Iran.

I just have to hope that none of the justices retire while Bush is in office, because his choice of judges are terrible.

Melon
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:27 PM   #41
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Originally posted by GibsonExplorer

Ok, are we clear now that I never stated that the recession started overnight?
Well, in Headache's defence.....You WERE implying that President Bush is responsible for a Recession that did not happen over night. And the amusing part is, you are implying that somehow he was supposed to stop something that had been steamrolling for two quarters back into the Clinton Administration.

You are ignoring that under CLINTON in the quarter prior to Bush taking over......business investments were on the decline, interest rates were on the rise, oil prices were rising. Throw Sept. 11th into it and there was no coming out of it. It did not matter who was President at that time. We were in it, and stuck in it.

If you wish to criticize the approach to dealing with the economy fine. But to imply, or blame Bush for the recession, is rediculous.
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:29 PM   #42
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Originally posted by melon


The Supreme Court is too corrupt to take it on. I doubt the Founding Fathers ever envisioned that the judiciary could be stacked full of partisan ideologues, so as to fully undermine the delicate Separation of Powers that is the only thing that separates us from a faux-democracy like Iran.

I just have to hope that none of the justices retire while Bush is in office, because his choice of judges are terrible.

Melon
That is an opinion. The court was created this way for a reason. If they are corrupt, then there is a process to have them removed. I am sure there were many who felt the court was corrupt when they overturned the laws on segregation ect.
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
The Supreme Court is too corrupt to take it on. I doubt the Founding Fathers ever envisioned that the judiciary could be stacked full of partisan ideologues, so as to fully undermine the delicate Separation of Powers that is the only thing that separates us from a faux-democracy like Iran.
Were you thinking of the Warren Court?
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Old 02-26-2004, 10:47 PM   #44
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
That is an opinion. The court was created this way for a reason. If they are corrupt, then there is a process to have them removed. I am sure there were many who felt the court was corrupt when they overturned the laws on segregation ect.
Or how about the fact that, for nearly 100 years, they ignored the constitutional amendments that gave blacks equal rights, and, thus, allowed segregation to take place? THAT is the shame of the matter.

If your entire government is corrupt, then there is no one to impeach anyone at all. And, thus, we're back to the same environment that bred Plessy v. Ferguson in 1892.

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Old 02-26-2004, 10:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


If your entire government is corrupt, then there is no one to impeach anyone at all.
It is the Electorate that has allowed the corruption to occur. They are the ULTIMATE group responsible for putting these people in office.
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