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Old 02-08-2006, 04:00 AM   #31
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Originally posted by lady luck
No, it's not unexpected... but still it hurts.

The Turkish police found the young murderer, and he said he did it because of the cartoon.

What a nutjob.
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:09 AM   #32
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The drawing of Mohamet with the bomb (instead of the hat) made me laugh..... Why can't we laugh about our own Gods???? It's anyway the same God...... if he/she exists, which I doubt.
But I guess the religious fanatics don't have a very developped sense of humor...... good for them. But how the f... can the Muslam world react like that all over the world???!!! I don't understand that.....
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:52 AM   #33
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I hate to admit it! But i'm i think i am becoming "Islamaphobic", not to the point where i want to run off and cause destruction and death, but i'm very,very wary!
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:31 AM   #34
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I suggest logic and a politics as an antidote, Bernard Lewis has some great books covering the interactions of the Ottoman Empire and Christendom.
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Old 02-08-2006, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Great point. On another matter - where is all the Muslim "outrage" at suicide bombers that target innocent people????
Oh, we're always condemning terrorist attacks on innocents, but no one cares to listen because they are too busy with the BrAngelina saga...

About the whole Jesus thing, I think theres no outcry because:
1) Christianity slowly phased it in
2) Most people still have respect for Jesus

Also, Jesus' status in Islam is the following. Muhammad is considered the final prophet of God, and brought the last revelation which was to be relevant until the end of time for all peoples; which is unlike previous revelations which were only meant for a specific time period and specific people. (Parts of the Torah are believed to be revelation, although it's believed that the original text hasn't been preserved-- in some places where there is talk about a final messenger who will be like Moses, Muslims consider that to be talking about Muhammad since Muhammad's life was much more similar to Moses.)

However, Jesus is considered to be the Messiah. It was revealed in the Quran that he was not killed but it appeared as though he was. The believe is, is that Jesus is currently residing in Heaven, and he will come back to earth before the end of time and will defend earth from the "dajjal" (I guess its a similar concept to what the anti-christ is to Christians). Then he will rule as a King of Men before he dies, and soon after the world will end.

That being said I have to say two things:
1) My fellow Muslims aren't using their head in their response to the Danish Cartoons
2) The newspapers which published the offending cartoons abused their freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is meant to have some point so as to benefit the listeners/readers of the speech. The Danish cartoon really served no purpose to the newspaper's readers. However I am not justifying the response of killing people.
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Old 02-08-2006, 02:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by bcrt2000
2) Most people still have respect for Jesus
Even though His name is used as an explitive on a daily basis....
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Old 02-08-2006, 02:29 PM   #37
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there are just too many reasons why i stay away from religion

I am really of the opinion that logic and religion do not go together

about this whole thing, i cannot make up my mind.

I think both sides are to be blamed. It is already a highly sensitve time. Westren/ christian societies and Islamic societeis, tiptoeing around each other.. not really knowing what to do and what to think.
I mean, it is known taht there i ssome pretty strong and agressive fantatic potential on the islamic side (just as it has been on the christian throughout history and on a small scale there still is)... WHY for whatever's sake toy with it at such a time?

not protecting the crazy reactions here, but i still think consideration has to come from both sides

And it does not matter whether we do not get offended by christian cartoons. People have different opinions on what is important or not all the time, and it is common knowledge that there are indeed many people who are VERY sensitive about their prophets (and religion in general). So why not just NOT provoke... for once.
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!
I hate to admit it! But i'm i think i am becoming "Islamaphobic", not to the point where i want to run off and cause destruction and death, but i'm very,very wary!
Keep in mind that there are 1.4 billion Muslims in the world, and most of the thousands of protests which have taken place have been completely peaceful. It's the ugly stuff which makes the news. That doesn't mean peaceful protesters aren't also angry and offended, or that they don't also suspect that this is all part of a larger plan by Western powers to retain military and political dominance and control over the rest of the world. Much of this anger has a lot more to do with the latter than with reverence for Muhammad. That's an added insult, and one which provides a convenient focus for feelings of righteous indignation.

And as bcrt2000 said, there are examples aplenty of Muslim revulsion at their co-religionists' violence to be found in the Muslim media and blogosphere, in the form of statements from Muslim political leaders, sheikhs, ayatollahs, journalists, and everyday bloggers. You have to go looking for them, though, becuase they aren't front-page news and they are (stupidly) seen as tangential to the more sensational narratives of burning embassies, assassinated priests and Holocaust cartoon contests (which as A_W correctly pointed out elsewhere, that latter is aimed squarely at Europe, not at Israel).
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Even though His name is used as an explitive on a daily basis....
But so is God's. And generally speaking, I'm inclined to hear that as a thoroughly decontextualized, casual, non-religiously-loaded way of emphasizing the feelings underlying the profanity. Though I don't do it myself.

It's funny--in order to mock or provoke Jews, artists have to resort to caricatures of ordinary Jewish people and symbols, because we have no iconographic tradition of portraying God to draw upon, nor do we revere any one historic figure to the degree where you could provoke hysteria by drawing an unflattering picture of them based on guesses (or traditions) about what they might have looked like. I think perhaps this is a shortcoming (in the sense of heightened vulnerability to slights) of revering an actual historic figure: they are vested with a kind of status and authority that makes mocking them seem deeply malignant and reprehensible, yet because there is this portrayable, physical form associated with them, it is oh so easy to do so. There have been Hindu riots in India over "blasphemous" portrayals of Krishna (who was also a historic figure, even if generally portrayed in a superhuman way) and other avatars (incarnations) of the one supreme divine (Brahman) as well.
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:45 AM   #39
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Quote:
Priest hit 'ordered over web'

09/02/2006
South Africa News 24



ANKARA - The teenage suspect being held for allegedly shooting an Italian Roman Catholic priest in Turkey received orders to kill him through an internet webcam, the suspect's father said, according to the leading Hurriyet newspaper on Thursday.

The suspect's father, Hikmet, was quoted by the paper as saying that his 16-year-old son was excited and nervous on Sunday night, hours after he allegedly killed Santoro. "Look at television, the priest was shot," Hikmet quoted his son as saying in an interview with Hurriyet.

The father became suspicious and pressed his son about why the priest might have been killed. Finally, the boy said: "I shot him. If I did not shoot him, they would shoot you," the father quoted his son as saying. "He did not reveal the details, he just said he was told by someone through a webcam," Hikmet said.

The paper did not provide the father's surname to protect the suspect, who is a minor. Neither the father nor the boy's lawyer was immediately available for comment.

The semiofficial Anatolia news agency reported that the boy was scheduled to appear in court on Thursday where he will likely be arraigned.
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:56 AM   #40
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Quote:
posted by a-mole

And it does not matter whether we do not get offended by christian cartoons. People have different opinions on what is important or not all the time, and it is common knowledge that there are indeed many people who are VERY sensitive about their prophets (and religion in general). So why not just NOT provoke... for once.
I agree.
I am for Freedom of Speech, but people should have a limit.

I have not understand how's possible that Turkish got to know about this cartoon... But anyways I am shocked by what's still going on in all the Muslim Countries.
Flag burnt, riots...

Will we ever live in peace?
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:26 AM   #41
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The idea that one person should limit their speech based upon the level of reaction of another is not the best measuring stick. In essense, you are rewarding violent reaction as a method of validating the inappropriateness of the speech.
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Old 10-20-2006, 10:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Had the tides turned in a different direction at the turn of the last millennium, imagery of important Christian figures might have been taboo too. But, thankfully, the Byzantine Empire was just kind of a long-running joke in its last centuries before oblivion, and the Catholic Church turned into a patron of the arts in the Middle Ages.

Last, but not least, thankfully Reformation-era fanatics ultimately lost in the long run:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm



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Holy crap Melon! You are like an encyclopedia. Every time I start to think I am somewhat well read all I have to do is read your posts to feel humble again.

Online marketing idea...MELONPEDIA!!!
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