Why must we show restraint to our enemies.

[Justin24]

We do our best to be human beings and provide a moral model for others.

Well it seems to be failing. Faith in humanity is like finding a needle in a haystack. We are an arrogant, careless species.

 

[maycocksean]

Well it seems to be failing. Faith in humanity is like finding a needle in a haystack. We are an arrogant, careless species.

Perhaps. But the alternative isn't much better. Better to have at least some of the people in the world aspiring to something better than just to give up and surrender to brutality.

And. . .I say this gingerly as I don't want to set off a firestorm and send this thread off track, but. . .my faith isn't in humanity, becasue we all do fail. Your summation is quite accurate. That's why my faith is in God. He is the hope as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Justin24]

I am Catholic and I have been reading this book "A History of God" I sometimes wonder to myself why is it when I pray deeply no one is there to answer me. I even asked my self and this may sound retarded, but I think I am Atheist now towards my Religon, but not to god. I think god only answer the real needy people. I even think God has given up on us and our ways of treating each other, and thats why we seek revenge and kill with out judgement from God himself. In the bible God seems to punish the wicked, but We have taken that role now.

 

[JMScoopy]

Note we did not need to use Nazi tactics to defeat the Nazis.

yeah, but what if it turns out thats what it takes to defeat these terrorists? to fight fire with fire?

compairing the terrorists to nazis is like compairing apples and oranges. i'd say most of the nazi's werent as committed as these terrorists are to their causes. i'd say most of the nazis were just ordinary germans fighting for their country. now, i am no way defending the nazi party or what the did mind you. the nazis were an accual army that you could stand and fight. these sneaky bastard terrorist hide in the shadows waiting to strike at the right moment, then go hide in mountains afterward. plus, the terrorists are religious fanatics, bent on death and destruction of the western world. they will not be swayed, they will not be persuaded otherwise, whereas the nazi soldiers, like i said earlier, were just average joes fighting for their country, they might not even have agreed with their government, but they had to out of fear. they might've gladly surrendered towards the end of that war. the terrorists will never give up, will never stop their destruction as long as we continue the way we are going with our tactics.

 

[Irvine511]

yeah, but what if it turns out thats what it takes to defeat these terrorists? to fight fire with fire?

then they win.

 

[AEON]

then they win.

Agreed. I am in training to become an Army National Guard Infantry officer - there is nothing in our doctrine that teaches us that chopping off heads is acceptable. Chopping off heads is a war crime. And if one of my men commits this crime, he will be brought up on charges - period.

Rapes, murders, and body desecrations will only undermine our cause and enrage the enemy.

 

[verte76]

I have a question. With all the acts we do to each other, Murder, Rape, etc... What gives us Hope that we will change and stop such acts, like beheadings, Tortuing,etc..

We have to do better.

 

[Dreadsox]

Agreed. I am in training to become an Army National Guard Infantry officer - there is nothing in our doctrine that teaches us that chopping off heads is acceptable. Chopping off heads is a war crime. And if one of my men commits this crime, he will be brought up on charges - period.

Rapes, murders, and body desecrations will only undermine our cause and enrage the enemy.

I guess we agree on something. best of luck on your training.

 

[AEON]

I guess we agree on something. best of luck on your training.

Thanks! Almost done...and then the REAL fun begins...

 

[Justin24]

We have to do better.

Doing better is not an option in this world. With religous differences, sexuality, Racism, War, Power, Money. Beheadings will continue, the death of our men and woman soldiers will continue. Peace in the middle east will never be and with the new threat in Asia we are doomed to suffer more.

 

[verte76]

Doing better is not an option in this world. With religous differences, sexuality, Racism, War, Power, Money. Beheadings will continue, the death of our men and woman soldiers will continue. Peace in the middle east will never be and with the new threat in Asia we are doomed to suffer more.

I don't agree--we don't have to accept the morality of the insurgents. I don't.

 

[Justin24]

Summarize for me what you would have done better to fix this problem in Iraq. Especially after these incidents.

 

[Dreadsox]

Thanks! Almost done...and then the REAL fun begins...

Been there done that!!!!

 

[verte76]

Summarize for me what you would have done better to fix this problem in Iraq. Especially after these incidents.

I would have fired Donald Rumsfeld three years ago, for starters. Those neocon jokers should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Justin24]

I too would have fired him. I would rather have Colin Powell and experienced soldier be secretary of Defense.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I am Catholic and I have been reading this book "A History of God" I sometimes wonder to myself why is it when I pray deeply no one is there to answer me. I even asked my self and this may sound retarded, but I think I am Atheist now towards my Religon, but not to god. I think god only answer the real needy people. I even think God has given up on us and our ways of treating each other, and thats why we seek revenge and kill with out judgement from God himself. In the bible God seems to punish the wicked, but We have taken that role now.

Is it really that God isn't there to answer you? Maybe he has answered, but you don't know what he answered. Or maybe he answered with a different answer than you expected? Or maybe he hasn't yet, because it's not time to answer yet. There are so many possibilities here.

 

[Diemen]

Doing better is not an option in this world.

That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. If that were true, then Martin Luther King Jr. wouldn't have made a stand on segregation. No one would've stood up to the Nazis. I could go on for ages.

I simply cannot believe that you're seriously trying to put forth that because we [may not] be able to beat them, that we should simply join them and become barbarians ourselves. It's absolutely disgusting.

And for once, I actually agree with 80s. Just because you didn't hear the answer you wanted doesn't mean you didn't get an answer. Or perhaps you shouldn't be expecting clear direct answers to your prayers in the first place.






Wait, let me say that I again. I actually agree with 80s last post.

 

[Justin24]

That's the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. If that were true, then Martin Luther King Jr. wouldn't have made a stand on segregation. No one would've stood up to the Nazis. I could go on for ages.

Wait, let me say that I again. I actually agree with 80s last post.

We still have Racism in this world. Ne-Nazi's, Skin Heads. There is still segregation among the Race of people. Did you ever attend public school? Latino's do not want to mix with african americans,etc......


Has God spoken to you?

 

[BVS]

Justin, you're being quite the pessimist of late. Do you honestly think the world doesn't change?

We will never eliminate, just deminish...

 

[Diemen]

We still have Racism in this world. Ne-Nazi's, Skin Heads. There is still segregation among the Race of people. Did you ever attend public school? Latino's do not want to mix with african americans,etc......


Has God spoken to you?

We will always have problems in this world. To suggest otherwise is naive. But are you saying that since there is still some racism and pro-segregation thought in the world, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and countless others simply shouldn't have taken a stand? That since there are still Nazi/NeoNazi groups and brutal dictatorships in the world that those who resisted shouldn't have done so? Complete success or don't even bother?

Yes, I attended public school. I saw plenty of mixing of ethnic groups. I'm white, and I had (and have) friends from a whole mix of ethnic and racial backgrounds. Were there those who preferred not to mix with other groups? Sure. But I'd hardly say your statement that Latinos "do not want to mix with african americans" is an accurate representation of the country. Maybe at your school and in certain areas of the country, but it's a poor stereotype at best.

The alternatives you're presenting are really troubling, Justin. Either we don't bother trying for better and let the evil roll right over us, or we simply cease trying to be better altogether and become just as evil as that which we're trying to defeat? Do you realize what you're suggesting?

 

[Justin24]

yes I do see what I am saying. What I mean to say is that sometimes it feels like we shouldn't put to much in hope. But there have been people, some of who you have mentioned.

 

[80sU2isBest]

We still have Racism in this world. Ne-Nazi's, Skin Heads. There is still segregation among the Race of people. Did you ever attend public school? Latino's do not want to mix with african americans,etc......


Has God spoken to you?

He has spoken to me. I received direct communication from him or one of his angels that saved my life in a certain situation.

 

[Irvine511]

[q]"Humane treatment of insurgent captives should extend far beyond compliance with Article 3, if for no other reason than to render them more susceptible to interrogation. The insurgent is trained to expect brutal treatment upon capture. If, contrary to what he has been led to believe, this mistreatment is not forthcoming, he is apt to become psychologically softened for interrogation. Furthermore, brutality by either capturing troops or friendly interrogators will reduce defections and serve as grist for the insurgent's propaganda mill," - from the Army Field Manual 34-52.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/policy/army/fm/fm34-52/chapter9.htm

[/q]



just sayin', is all ....

 

[AEON]

[q]"Humane treatment of insurgent captives should extend far beyond compliance with Article 3, if for no other reason than to render them more susceptible to interrogation. The insurgent is trained to expect brutal treatment upon capture. If, contrary to what he has been led to believe, this mistreatment is not forthcoming, he is apt to become psychologically softened for interrogation. Furthermore, brutality by either capturing troops or friendly interrogators will reduce defections and serve as grist for the insurgent's propaganda mill," - from the Army Field Manual 34-52.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/policy/army/fm/fm34-52/chapter9.htm

[/q]




just sayin', is all ....

great post! That was a good bit o' research

 

[verte76]

We still have Racism in this world. Ne-Nazi's, Skin Heads. There is still segregation among the Race of people. Did you ever attend public school? Latino's do not want to mix with african americans,etc......

So never speak out against racism or any other evil, just because it exists? That's disturbing.

 

[Justin24]

You know there is always a double standard. A white person speaks out against a group or a person that may be of a different nationality and boom he/she is racist. An African american says something about latinos, calling them spicks, wetbacks etc.. I never hear them being called racist. speaking out against racism has it's problems. You tell the 50 that there was a murder(Evil) and you better hope you don't get shot.

 

[BVS]

You know there is always a double standard. A white person speaks out against a group or a person that may be of a different nationality and boom he/she is racist. An African american says something about latinos, calling them spicks, wetbacks etc.. I never hear them being called racist. speaking out against racism has it's problems.

Racism is racism, I've never heard anyone use slurs like that and not get called out on it.

You tell the 50 that there was a murder(Evil) and you better hope you don't get shot.

I have no clue what this means...



But we're getting way off topic.

 

[Justin24]

I agree, let's get back on topic