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Old 07-11-2006, 12:05 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Terrorism is a cancer that has to be cut out at the root by any means necessary.


and weeds always grow back ... stronger.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:05 PM   #77
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The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Seems to me that these groups are doing just that to the thousands of people they have killed.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


What is "waterboarding"?

[q]
"The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. 'The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law,' said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch." [2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[/q]
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:07 PM   #79
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Originally posted by Justin24


The Geneva Convention is a joke now. Like the UN it's worthless. I don't see them doing much on the atrocities in Africa and the middle east and asia, with there own little wars going on.


so we're no better than militias in Libera or the Congo, the Iraqi insurgents, or the Taliban?

what kind of society are we trying to defend if we can't differentiate ourselves from those we say we are defending ourselves against?
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:08 PM   #80
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Do you have any proof of Waterboarding or just what someone says. People will say anything for sympathy
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:09 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


Unfortunately, violence IS a permanent situation in my country and my hometown of Ashdod is now within range of the Hamas rockets that have been hitting the towns of Sderot and Ashkelon.

Terrorism is a cancer that has to be cut out at the root by any means necessary.
Violence is also a permanent situation here in Colombia... since I was little I was affraid of bombs, being kidnapped and stuff like that. Sometimes when I watch the news (the awfull news) I feel so much anger and impotence, and I must confess that sometimes I think that the terrorists must die in the most awful and painful ways... but you know what?, what will we get if we catch all these people and torture them: just more scars, just to prove that dignity is just an illusion... and I don't want to see that
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:09 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


Seems to me that these groups are doing just that to the thousands of people they have killed.
Yes, I'm a little confused. Are you under the impression that I didn't believe that?
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:10 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Do you have any proof of Waterboarding or just what someone says. People will say anything for sympathy


http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1322866



from that article:

[q]The CIA sources described a list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

The techniques are controversial among experienced intelligence agency and military interrogators. Many feel that a confession obtained this way is an unreliable tool. Two experienced officers have told ABC that there is little to be gained by these techniques that could not be more effectively gained by a methodical, careful, psychologically based interrogation. According to a classified report prepared by the CIA Inspector General John Helgerwon and issued in 2004, the techniques "appeared to constitute cruel, and degrading treatment under the (Geneva) convention," the New York Times reported on Nov. 9, 2005.

It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer.

Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust … than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets."

[/q]
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:10 PM   #84
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Were better than Libera The Congo, Insurgents and Taliban. We have morals. Can we really change as human beings in our treatment of others? I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:12 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.
Because without it you couldn't convict anyone of these crimes.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:12 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Were better than Libera The Congo, Insurgents and Taliban. We have morals. Can we really change as human beings in our treatment of others? I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.


because adhering to the Geneva Convention is an active demonstration of those morals you insist we have.

we can't very well insist that we have them, and then act in a manner that contradicts said morals.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:15 PM   #87
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International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:16 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.


i don't understand this post at all.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #89
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International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.
So because laws are broken, they are useless?

Wow, might as well throw out all laws.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #90
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The Geneva Convention is followed by countries. These people who killed the two soldiers did not follow the Geneva Convention. So now what?
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