Why must we show restraint to our enemies. - Page 12 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-11-2006, 07:15 PM   #166
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:51 PM
[Q]In Mid-November 2004, a few weeks after the President's reelection, one of Miscik's deputies returned from a briefing with the Vice President. He had a request for her. Cheney wanted a portion of a particular CIA report declassified and made public. Miscik knew the report-it was about the complex, of catalytic connections between the war in Iraq and the wider war against terrorism. The item that the Vice President wanted declassified was a small part that might lead one to believe that the war was helping the broader campaign against violent jihadists. The report she knew, concluded nothing of the sort. Many of its conclusions flowed in the opposite direction. To release that small segment would be willfully misleading. She told the briefer to tell Cheney she didn't think it was a good idea.

The Vice President expressed his outrage to Porter Goss. A few days later, a call came from Goss's office........The deputy expressed the DCI's displeasure. He urged Miscik to reconsider. He described Goss's position succinctly:"Saying no to the Vice President is the wrong answer."

......

She hung up and fired off a memo to Goss, saying-she later recalled-that "this was the sort of thing that had gotten us into trouble, time and again, over the past few years. Telling only half the story, the part that makes us look good, and keeping the rest classified. Eventually it comes out and looks bad, real bad, and we lose moral capital."

A few days later, Miscik got word....that the DCI would reluctantly support her decision. A few weeks after that, she was gone.....

Her memo-a summation of a long-standing school of thought of which she is one of countless adherants-is of course classified.[/Q]

pg. 340-341 One Percent Doctrine
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:16 PM   #167
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


Wow, you're still focusing on the symptoms and not the cause.

Why do those Imams and Osama hate the West? What's the cause of their hate? Identify that and work to eliminate it, rather than just shooting imams or brutally torturing terrorists.
"Work at it and eliminate it"... In other words, stop doing whatever it is that the blood-thirsty terrorists don't like. In other other words, give in to the blood-thirsty, head-chopping hellions.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:17 PM   #168
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


Wow, you're still focusing on the symptoms and not the cause.

Why do those Imams and Osama hate the West? What's the cause of their hate? Identify that and work to eliminate it, rather than just shooting imams or brutally torturing terrorists. If there is no ideological foundation left, then you might see an end to terrorism. If you just keep torturing and killing those who create a desire in you for bloodthirsty revenge, you're only going to make things worse and inspire more hatred.
You know before the invasion of Iraq. The Imams had done nothing to stop the spread of hate in there religion, which I always here is supposed to be a religion of "Peace." I never see Muslims doing anything to stop the spead of hate and violence in there religion which is being cause by fuck ups. I sure do see them waving jumping and yelling in front of news cameras while they burn flags, call for the death of israel and the west. Calling us satan. Blowing up cars in front of a mosque full of shiites or sunnies and treat there woman like shit.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:17 PM   #169
Refugee
 
fly so high!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Andrews NSW Australia
Posts: 1,835
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
So I guess that means they win right? By instilling fear into the people, by threats of beheadings and suicide bombings.
Justin24....from what i've seen on this thread...the "terrorists" have one over you....you are shit scared....which is exactly what they want...i cannot believe even after posters have made sensible justifible reasons why killing to get back at these people IS NOT A OPTION!......and yes Justin24...whether you like it or not, THEY ARE PEOPLE,that are shit-scared too!...The difference between you and them is you are not armed,you are not hungry or having to look over your shoulder evry waking second....these people are desperate human beings.....don't get me wrong....i don't wanna give these guys are hug ( that won't do a single thing either!) They for what ever reason(there would to many factors to name)....has let fear into their heads and where this place is....there is no Life or Death,there is no Right or Wrong...there is just fear....don't let that consume you too!
__________________
fly so high! is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:21 PM   #170
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


Justin24....from what i've seen on this thread...the "terrorists" have one over you....you are shit scared....which is exactly what they want...i cannot believe even after posters have made sensible justifible reasons why killing to get back at these people IS NOT A OPTION!......and yes Justin24...whether you like it or not, THEY ARE PEOPLE,that are shit-scared too!...The difference between you and them is you are not armed,you are not hungry or having to look over your shoulder evry waking second....these people are desperate human beings.....don't get me wrong....i don't wanna give these guys are hug ( that won't do a single thing either!) They for what ever reason(there would to many factors to name)....has let fear into their heads and where this place is....there is no Life or Death,there is no Right or Wrong...there is just fear....don't let that consume you too!
I am not scared if I die or not. Who should the people of Iraq fear more our soldiers which are 99.9% good or there own people who will kill them for being a shiite or sunni, for helping rebuild there country, etc... They should be afraid of there own people. I mean Bin Laden told the Sunnis to kill the Shiites for God's Sake.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:28 PM   #171
Refugee
 
fly so high!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Andrews NSW Australia
Posts: 1,835
Local Time: 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


I am not scared if I die or not. Who should the people of Iraq fear more our soldiers which are 99.9% good or there own people who will kill them for being a shiite or sunni, for helping rebuild there country, etc... They should be afraid of there own people. I mean Bin Laden told the Sunnis to kill the Shiites for God's Sake.
This is intersting.......how come you are not scared to DIE!
__________________
fly so high! is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:32 PM   #172
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 06:51 PM
Should I be afraid to die? I figure it will be the greatest Vacation Trip ever. All the R&R I will get.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:32 PM   #173
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


"Work at it and eliminate it"... In other words, stop doing whatever it is that the blood-thirsty terrorists don't like. In other other words, give in to the blood-thirsty, head-chopping hellions.
Um, no.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:40 PM   #174
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:51 PM
This thread is interesting in how it has splintered into multiple side discussions, ranging from the conduct of a military campaign to the effectiveness of coercive interrogation techniques.

Returning to the original post, the conceptual argument that the US must continually turn the other cheek in an effort to win over its enemies with morally upright behavior may be the correct course of action, but is without evidence that this is the most effective course of action, or most appropriate course of action. The US is facing an enemy that has a laundry list of grievances, and will continually place forth an objection to our actions.

Regarding our continued discussion on the applicability of the Geneva Convention, I doubt many have read Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. The court only addressed the war trial commissions as they apply to the Gitmo detainees. It does not address the general applicability of the Geneva Convention to terrorists (and specifically states that the Court need not address that issue). The discussion of the Geneva Convention was limited to the requirement that detainees face a “regularly constituted court” for trial. The case was remanded for further deliberation on these issues, as it had reached the Supreme Court on largely procedural issues.

There is absolutely no basis for the statement that “we created terrorists”. If anything, we have given them a location so they can practice their trade.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:49 PM   #175
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24If a foreign country did invade I would fight them. I would not torture them or behead them, but I would shoot at them. I will leave the torturing of my enemy to others.[/B]
Well, that's not what you said when you started this thread, see below:

Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Why must we show restraint against them and not be allowed to torture or disrepect there bodies, such as cremate them, which is not allowed in the Muslim religion.
I was also responding to quotes like JMScoopy's below, which you did not oppose.


Quote:
Originally posted by JMScoopy
im sure if the military said from now on if you are a terrorist, insurgent, etc and we capture you, we are going to torture and murder you and then find all your family members and then torture and kill them. that would be a better deterrent from terrorism then say, "humane treatment."
You're free to say whatever you like here of course, but you might be more successful in bringing people over to your point of view if you slowed down a bit and really thought through what you're saying before you post.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 07:57 PM   #176
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This thread is interesting in how it has splintered into multiple side discussions, ranging from the conduct of a military campaign to the effectiveness of coercive interrogation techniques.

Returning to the original post, the conceptual argument that the US must continually turn the other cheek in an effort to win over its enemies with morally upright behavior may be the correct course of action, but is without evidence that this is the most effective course of action, or most appropriate course of action. The US is facing an enemy that has a laundry list of grievances, and will continually place forth an objection to our actions.

Regarding our continued discussion on the applicability of the Geneva Convention, I doubt many have read Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. The court only addressed the war trial commissions as they apply to the Gitmo detainees. It does not address the general applicability of the Geneva Convention to terrorists (and specifically states that the Court need not address that issue). The discussion of the Geneva Convention was limited to the requirement that detainees face a “regularly constituted court” for trial. The case was remanded for further deliberation on these issues, as it had reached the Supreme Court on largely procedural issues.

There is absolutely no basis for the statement that “we created terrorists”. If anything, we have given them a location so they can practice their trade.
I hear what you're saying, Nbc, but I don't think anyone is suggesting we "turn the other cheek." All I'm saying is that we do not need to engage in terrorist-like behavior (i.e. disrespecting bodies, torturing terrorists and murdering their families) in order to win.

With your last sentence I heartily agree.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 08:03 PM   #177
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
There is absolutely no basis for the statement that “we created terrorists”. If anything, we have given them a location so they can practice their trade.
Isn't that worth 2,000 dead American soldiers.....Still waiting for osama to show up....then maybe it was worth it.

Is it not correct, to want your country to act effectively so that soldiers are not needlessly dying? Is it not correct to want the proper staffing and procedures, so that the insurgency is not as effective? 85% of murders in Iraq occured in the capital in May. Does it sound like we are doing a better job than Saddam?

Terrorists, insurgents, call them what you will....we added fuel to the fire in this country.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 08:04 PM   #178
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Um, no.
Um, yes

Let me remind you of the exact quote:

"Why do those Imams and Osama hate the West? What's the cause of their hate? Identify that and work to eliminate it"

What else could that mean except "find out what it is about us that they hate and stop doing it"?
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-11-2006, 08:07 PM   #179
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Returning to the original post, the conceptual argument that the US must continually turn the other cheek in an effort to win over its enemies with morally upright behavior may be the correct course of action, but is without evidence that this is the most effective course of action, or most appropriate course of action.
How is it we've had to turn the other cheek? Really?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-11-2006, 08:10 PM   #180
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:51 PM
By the way...it is this administration that has been trying to tie Iraq to 9/11 Terrorism.....

I do not have time to type the pages that indicate this administration put so much pressure on the CIA to mislead in meeting after meeting after meeting. Sickening.

The policy was decided and they thew out all but the round pegs that fit the policy.

So excuse me if the issue is blurred. It has been blurred by the lying scumbags of this administration.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com