Why Is Gay Marriage Wrong?

[A_Wanderer]

I have spent a reasonable amount of time considering why a binding contract between two lovers of the same chromosomal hand is wrong and I don't see it as an issue. I feel that they are just as entitled as any heterosexual couple in enshrining their relationships and having the guarantees of legality bestowed upon them.

I would like to know why homosexuals should be denied access to the marriage contract. As most FYM'ers live in secular states I would really like to see a legitimate non-religious argument.

Seriously, this is an issue of individual liberty that is quashed by the homophobia of politicians and the electorate (an issue where I feel democracy trumps liberty). I just want to see some justification for opposition to gay marraige that isn't rooted in religious belief (because if the argument is rooted in religious belief it has no role in a secular state).

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

wtf is Gay Marrigage & gay marraige ?

 

[financeguy]

The usual non-religious argument raised here, though I don't tend to agree with it, is that children raised by gay parents could be more likely to be bullied.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

that depends on where you live, maybe a non-issue in larger cities but in the "bible belt" and especially small town America its still going to happen, sadly.

 

[A_Wanderer]

wtf is Gay Marrigage & gay marraige ?

Well obviously it is a thread posted after half a bottle of Chivas.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Well obviously it is a thread posted after half a bottle of Chivas.

well your'e doing better than me then, i wouldn't be able to even spell my own name after that much booze. Cheers

 

[redhotswami]

The usual non-religious argument raised here, though I don't tend to agree with it, is that children raised by gay parents could be more likely to be bullied.

Varitek would be someone to ask about that.

I don't agree with that argument either, I think it's stupid. Kids are gonna get bullied no matter what. It's almost like saying people shouldn't have children with disabilities because they are more likely to be bullied. Kids look for any excuse to bully others these days.

 

[martha]

The usual non-religious argument raised here, though I don't tend to agree with it, is that children raised by gay parents could be more likely to be bullied.

It's the old story of blaming the victim for those that think this is a real reason for denying rights to people.

 

[MadelynIris]

I don't have an argument against it.. but would prefer to open that kind of contract to all, beyond just a perceived romantic relationship.

I say, any kind of partnership.

 

[deep]

I don't have an argument against it.. but would prefer to open that kind of contract to all, beyond just a perceived romantic relationship.

I say, any kind of partnership.

I guess you mean if any two adults wanted enter into a "civil union" for the advantages of inheritance, benefits, hospital visits, and other "rights of survivorship"?


such as: siblings, uncle and niece, grandparent and grandchild, parent and child, etc.?

 

[DaveC]

I guess you mean if any two adults wanted enter into a "civil union" for the advantages of inheritance, benefits, hospital visits, and other "rights of survivorship"?


such as: siblings, uncle and niece, grandparent and grandchild, parent and child, etc.?

 

[diamond]

Take the word marriage out of the argument, and this issue goes away.

<>

 

[martha]

Take the word marriage out of the argument, and this issue goes away.

You didn't give a reason.

 

[anitram]

I guess you mean if any two adults wanted enter into a "civil union" for the advantages of inheritance, benefits, hospital visits, and other "rights of survivorship"?


such as: siblings, uncle and niece, grandparent and grandchild, parent and child, etc.?

Tax breaks for everybody!!

 

[deep]

Tax breaks for everybody!!

you got me

I say, any kind of partnership.

Is that what you mean?

 

[diamond]

You didn't give a reason.

marriage is already has a definition, no need to morph it into something else.

if ppl of the same gender want to be viewed in a commited long term relationship partnership call it anything but marriage because marriage already has a defintion.

call it:

committed companions
unioned companions

or some other variation, not marriage though- as that word is already defined and taken.

<>

 

[Angela Harlem]

marriage is already has a definition, no need to morph it into something else.

But diamond, there is a need to redefine it. Gay people do not have to hide or change who they are anymore. Gay people are a part of every community the world over. We're all accepting that now, surely. They are there, and they are there to stay. We do need to redefine what marriage means. It is reaching the point where you cannot keep denying gay folk the same opportunities as others. We don't accept this kind of discrimination anymore in other avenues. Sex discrimination is no different when you equalise all humans and all rights. Logic dictates this, so let the logic speak to you.

Insitutions, words, social norms, etc, are all ever-changing. Marriage is just another one. Time to join the rest of us in the modern world where there are gay people who are not going anywhere.... Unless you want to be a bigot, that is?

 

[MadelynIris]

Yes deep, that is what I mean. Same benefits for all domestic partnerships.

 

[diamond]

Unless you want to be a bigot, that is?

So says you.

<>

 

[BVS]

marriage is already has a definition, no need to morph it into something else.

This is a pretty weak argument, in fact it's downright lazy...


Anyone who knows anything about American history knows defintions change and the constitution changes...

 

[Angela Harlem]

So says you.

<>

Denial doesn't absolve you.

 

[1stepcloser]

But diamond, there is a need to redefine it. Gay people do not have to hide or change who they are anymore. Gay people are a part of every community the world over. We're all accepting that now, surely. They are there, and they are there to stay. We do need to redefine what marriage means. It is reaching the point where you cannot keep denying gay folk the same opportunities as others. We don't accept this kind of discrimination anymore in other avenues. Sex discrimination is no different when you equalise all humans and all rights. Logic dictates this, so let the logic speak to you.

Insitutions, words, social norms, etc, are all ever-changing. Marriage is just another one. Time to join the rest of us in the modern world where there are gay people who are not going anywhere.... Unless you want to be a bigot, that is?

 

[vaz02]

Gay people have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us.
No doubt those who are against same sex marriage believe its against " god's will ".

 

[Angela Harlem]

Problem with that of course is that marriage exists for people without religion too, so whatever god wants is not even really a relevant argument.

 

[martha]

So the only secular argument against gay marriage so far is the that word has already been defined?

What a stellar reason to deny rights to people.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Marriage already has a "definition" because straight people have given it one, and not very successfully, in many cases, it seems But of course numerous failed straight marriages trump any gay marriage any day of the week, cause they fit the definition and all that

Gay people deserve to get married every bit as much as straight people do in order to seal and celebrate their commitment to one another, which is the main ideal reason straight people get married I assume.

 

[A_Wanderer]

So the only secular argument against gay marriage so far is the that word has already been defined?

What a stellar reason to deny rights to people.

Actually it is perfectly secular to take pride in fucking over the outgroup, it affirms your normality, and I don't think that is a bad reason in and of itself.

 

[diamond]

Marriage already has a "definition" because straight people have given it one, and not very successfully, in many cases, it seems But of course numerous failed straight marriages trump any gay marriage any day of the week, cause they fit the definition and all that

Gay people deserve to get married every bit as much as straight people do in order to seal and celebrate their commitment to one another, which is the main ideal reason straight people get married I assume.

Gay ppl can't get "married" but can have a long term committed relationship as married ppl do. Nobody in this thread is objecting to that.

That said:

1- I don't think the main reason people get married is to "celebrate their commitment to one another" it's one of the reasons, apparently you do as well as most secularists I suppose think it's a main reason -it appears based on yours and others posts.

2-It will be interesting to see once gay committed relationships become legalized to track their success rate compared to the "bigoted" married crowd.


Get to me once the data starts to trickle in and we may have something to chat about.

thanks-
<>

 

[Vincent Vega]

If this page got its facts right, homosexual couples wouldn't have to worry about any comparison: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Gay ppl can't get "married" but can have a long term committed relationship as married ppl do. Nobody in this thread is objecting to that.

That said:

1- I don't think the main reason people get married is to "celebrate their commitment to one another" it's one of the reasons, apparently you do as well as most secularists I suppose think it's a main reason -it appears based on yours and others posts.

2-It will be interesting to see once gay committed relationships become legalized to track their success rate compared to the "bigoted" married crowd.


Get to me once the data starts to trickle in and we may have something to chat about.

Lol, you call me a "secularist" because I believe that? I consider myself to be a pretty religious person, even though you may not-it's ok Personally I just don't believe that religion should be used to deny human beings rights. So what is the main reason you think people get married? To have kids? What about people who don't want kids or can't physically have them? They shouldn't get married then, right?

Of course gay people can have children, there are ways and of course there's adoption, which is every bit as "legit" as the God created way.

Gay marriages have been very successful so far in MA, and of course MA has the LOWEST divorce rate in the US..