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Old 04-14-2008, 01:25 PM   #91
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Originally posted by diamond


yes, and i don't think ppl of a different skin pigmentation should be used to advance an agenda.

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can you not see the connection? can you not see that the arguments that were once used against interracial couples -- trust me, we can find the bible quotes -- are the *exact* same ones used against gay couples?

people like Coretta Scott King knew prejudice when they saw it, and they knew what it was liked to be judged by your form instead of your content. and so they drew parallels between different struggles. no, not all struggles are exactly the same, but all struggles have commonalities.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #92
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Originally posted by diamond


it's one of the main reasons, religious and personal values are another.

btw what do you think

"one flesh" means in that verse ?

I think it could mean touching pees pees w your new spouse.


<>


it's a tighter, more secure fit for us. and we can both give and receive. so there's an equality there that you people would do well to learn from.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:42 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




can you not see the connection? can you not see that the arguments that were once used against interracial couples -- trust me, we can find the bible quotes -- are the *exact* same ones used against gay couples?

people like Coretta Scott King knew prejudice when they saw it, and they knew what it was liked to be judged by your form instead of your content. and so they drew parallels between different struggles. no, not all struggles are exactly the same, but all struggles have commonalities.
Coretta is not an ordained minister.
MLK never came out and supported Homosexuality or Gay Marriage.

MLK's neice who is an ordained minister and Republican like MLK was has stated that MLK would dis approve of Gay Unions in which I differ with her and MLK.

So now are you going to call MLK's neice a bigot as well as MLK a bigot now for their belief systems, or are you going to come to the "diamond table of reasoning"?

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Old 04-14-2008, 01:42 PM   #94
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Originally posted by diamond


If I have Harley parked in my garage because I desired a motorcycle it would be accepted that I have a mortorcycle.

Well say if a fellow named Demetre' moves in across the alley from me and says he has a motorcycle too and would like to show me his and I agree and then he whips out a Vespa Moped and I try to explain to my new friend that a Vespa Moped isn't quite a "motorcycle" but very similar and you can enjoy the same benifits there shouldn't be an issue, and I think he wouldn't have a fit aand want to write Oxford, Webster's or Meramim dictionary services to demand a change in the meaning of the word "motorcycle", ok?

You realize that my Ducati (20 years of marriage) can smoke your heavy, chrome-bound Harley of a second marriage at any stoplight.

Does that make your marriage less of a marriage?
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:44 PM   #95
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Originally posted by martha
So, to recap again:

1. Dictionary definitions is it.

That's all anybody has to defend a bigoted stand against equal protection and access.

Well done.
Martha Darling,

Are you OCD?

Read my census answer.

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Old 04-14-2008, 01:46 PM   #96
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Read my census answer.

No. Summarize.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:47 PM   #97
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Originally posted by martha


You realize that my Ducati (20 years of marriage) can smoke your heavy, chrome-bound Harley of a second marriage at any stoplight.

Does that make your marriage less of a marriage?
No, it just means that as motorcyles were built in a ceratin years and maintained correctly that those marriages/motorcycles survived.

That same could be said of folks in a healthy LTRs who ride Vespas.

I *knew* the Harley analogy would whet your appetite.



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Old 04-14-2008, 01:48 PM   #98
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Originally posted by martha


No. Summarize.
i will not enable your laziness.

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Old 04-14-2008, 01:55 PM   #99
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Originally posted by Irvine511

it's a complex thing, and a mistake i think you're making is that homosexuality is only about sex. the definition of being homosexual is when you are physically and emotionally attracted to someone of the same sex. there are people who are able to form these kinds of sexual and emotional attachments with both genders, and they are probably best described as bisexuals.
Bisexual by most people's understanding means the ability to form relationships both emotional and sexual. I have noticed an interesting phenomenon about identifying oneself as bisexual however: if you were to ask a group of bisexual women if they could form a romantic relationship with a woman, the majority will say yes. Ask that same question of an equal number of men who call themselves bisexual, and you get some pretty different results.


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there is some suspicion, often with gay people, towards those who claim bisexuality, that it's a way to sort of be gay without having to deal with some of the social consequences of being gay. like a guy who says that he's not gay, he just likes to perform oral sex on other men.
Actually, this is mostly put forth by gay people looking to make themselves better and straight people looking to make themselves feel better. Most thinking adults realize that sexuality is a bit more complex than 'this or that'.

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i think you'll find that most people fall comfortably into either gay/straight, and despite some transgressions (usually while one is younger), the orientation is lived out in a very complete, consistent way


Hmm. I think more and more people are less and less comfortable with the polarized notion of 'gay' and 'straight'. Just my take on it. And what do you mean 'transgression'? A gay person who had straight trysts would look back at those as trangressions??


Quote:
but we're not calling all unions marriage. we're calling the union between two men and two women a marriage.
Why only two men or two women though? How do truly bisexual couples who want to realize the fullness of their emotional, romantic and sexual needs do so then in a legally recognized monogamous (well I guess it's not technically monog, but whatever) union, and why shouldn't they be allowed to affirm that committment to each other? Before you say 'well two of them can marry and just have the third as a long term committed partner', remember that gay people don't want to be told that they can't have marriage but they can be long term committed partners either, do they?

Quote:

if you want to argue that polygamist marriages should be legal, by all means, go ahead and do so. just don't lump that in with marriage equality.


Understand that I agree with your views mostly, but you do realize that what you are saying is pretty much similar to what someone who objects to the 'lumping in' of this issue with racial equality? I'm not arguing that polygamist marriages should be legal, I'm saying that what's good for gay people, why can't it be just as good for bisexual folk?

Quote:
polygamy has been made illegal for reasons that have nothing at all to do with gay people.


Really? What secular reason can you give me for why two men and a woman shouldn't be allowed to marry? Or for that matter for a man to have 3 wives? Most of what we consider law has some root in religion. Most of the stigma that polygamy has (pretty deservedly, too, in most cases) had heaped upon it could likely be a product of what happens when you marginalize a behaviour and outlaw it. People will still do it, but because of the rejection of society they circle the wagons and keep it close - which of course leads to the horrifying incest / in-breeding etc in these families..but think if it wasn't illegal - do you think that every polygamist family would have those issues? Isn't much of the stigma of promiscuity and disease heaped upon gay people a byproduct of centuries of being outlawed and outcast and misinformation spread? Just as surely as not every gay male wants to have wild unprotected sex with 100 men, I'm sure there are a number of people who would coexist in a polyamorous relationship without raping the daughter of their second wife or taking a 14 year old bride.

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argue polygamy on it's own merits, don't be lazy and assume that just because now gay people can get married, i can marry my pet rock.
Actually I'm a bit disappointed in the laziness of your answer, it's very narrow minded in my opinion. The pet rock comment? You sound like those anti-gay marriage fanatics: "what next, will I be able to marry my dog? oh noes!"

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Old 04-14-2008, 01:57 PM   #100
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Originally posted by Irvine511

it's a tighter, more secure fit for us. and we can both give and receive. so there's an equality there that you people would do well to learn from.
Good ol' condescension. Ever noticed that? Some actually think they're better because of their orientation. Love it.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by acrobatique

Actually I'm a bit disappointed in the laziness of your answer, it's very narrow minded in my opinion. The pet rock comment? You sound like those anti-gay marriage fanatics: "what next, will I be able to marry my dog? oh noes!"

I think that was kinda the point.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:13 PM   #102
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Oh - I get it. So in order to make it sound more cozy and normal for straight folk and ward off the crazy 'what will be next - me marrying my dog?!?!' comments, we'll allow gays to marry, but we'll draw the line at bisexual unions? Nope, that's too far people.

Where does the line in fact get drawn, and who says so? I'm betting any answer to that is not going to be "secular", not legitimately anyways.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:20 PM   #103
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Originally posted by acrobatique


You sound like those anti-gay marriage fanatics: "what next, will I be able to marry my dog? oh noes!"

You're new here, but that actual argument has been made in FYM as a legitimate reason for disallowing gay marriage.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:22 PM   #104
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Irvine is a homosexual agnostic.

Being bisexual doesn't necessarily mean that you love a man and a woman at the same time, so you want to argue bisexuality or polygamy?
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:25 PM   #105
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Originally posted by martha


You're new here, but that actual argument has been made in FYM as a legitimate reason for disallowing gay marriage.


I fully understand that, and reject it. It's not a legitimate reason.

It's by no means a new argument, I imagine this place is merely a microcosm of the outside world, much like any other internet forum.
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