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Old 04-18-2008, 03:56 PM   #301
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I knew your ego couldn't keep you away for long.

But to respond to your post:

Quote:
Why is it when I leave threads the post averages take a tumble like a bad day on Wall Street?
Perhaps it is because the rest of us are of a similar opinion on this topic. No one posted a logical, secular reason why gay marriage is wrong, so we're pretty much in consensus here. With you not posting, a lovely sense of serenity visited the thread for a bit.

Quote:
That said on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the maddest, how mad are some of you at me?


Is it safe to have a coherent dialouge with you or are some of you still unfocused with your anger?
Maybe it would take yolland saying this for you to even register the possibility (and even then I doubt you would consider it for long), but did you ever stop to think that perhaps it is YOU who needs to re-evaluate YOUR approach on here?
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:33 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I will thru sound reasoning at the right time when cooler heads prevail.

And the others should follow your heed likewise as well.
So you still prefer to point fingers at others rather than take an honest look at what caused the lack of "coolness"?

I give up, it's hopeless.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:47 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
No one posted a logical, secular reason why gay marriage is wrong,
I don't know.

That "gay-marriage-makes-no-provision-for-randy-polygamous-bisexuals-so-marriage-should-stay-being-only-for-straight-couples" reason almost had me convinced.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:15 AM   #304
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This thread has long devolved into a bad joke.

diamond, just keep your word and go away.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:38 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I've been the most even keeled, level headed unemotional person thru out this thread.



<>
Doesn't it bother you how hurtful you can be though? It is easy to have a "cool head" when the issues don't effect you directly. You've taken a very glib and cavalier approach about issues that are deeply meaningful and painful to several people here at FYM. You're reprimanding them for not being "level-headed" only adds insult to injury.

You seem to hold compassion and tolerance in high value theoretically but I'm puzzled that I don't see you put those values in action more on these threads.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:19 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


diamond, just keep your word and go away.
No, I deserve a voice at the table, and the time is now,
please read my post thoughtfully.

The reasons I posted my views in this thread are:

1- To let you know I'm more or less on the side of people who we're different than me, I'm in favor of their civil rights.

2-That labeling a fellow a "bigot" when in fact what I'm saying is that Gay ppl can have everything they want -just don't change the definition of an existing word..I can't be a "bigot" or "close-minded" if I'm giving the same rights to people that I enjoy. In short this is an argument on semantics where I'm correct and some choose to misconstrue my character over it.

3-Marriage involves a penis and a vagina, any other variation of that can be called something else- with the same meaning or with even greater meaning to the parties involved.

4-Interracial marriage comparisons still involve a penis and a vagina, and using people and bigots of the past and present in support of your cause is oppurtunistic and offensive to many, especially many of those of a different pigmentation then yours, so please don't go there.

5-My thought is if all truth and feelings were made known by the Gay community that the Gay commmunity would be ok with the designation of civil or religious unions of their orientation-as long as they have the benifits of marrieds matched- in which I've clearly stated I'm in support of. So what's the problem here people?


I think some of you hate the messenger and were deaf and closeminded to my message, thereby missing and oppurtunity to celebrate our commonalities and moving forward for the benifit of Gay ppl and because of this some of you here are unwittingly doing a dis service to the Gay community.

Peace,

<>
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:37 PM   #307
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Even though I know better, I have to. I'm as weak as you diamond. You say you're going away, yet you won't. I swear I won't answer you, yet I do. I noticed that you carefully avoided Sean's post. An uncharacteristically wise decision for you.


Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
No, I deserve a voice at the table, and the time is now,
Why do you deserve a voice at the table, when you're so willing to deny others a fully equal voice?

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
1- To let you know I'm more or less on the side of people who we're different than me, I'm in favor of their civil rights.
"More or less" says it all here.

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
2-That labeling a fellow a "bigot" when in fact what I'm saying is that Gay ppl can have everything they want
Except the thing that they want.

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
3-Marriage involves a penis and a vagina, any other variation of that can be called something else-
You've decided this, so others have to live by your decision. What if I decide differently? Do my decisions carry less weight?

Your constant harping about "civil rights" makes your posts and your opinions laughable. Especially when you bring up men who have sex with animals and then wonder why you have no credibility when you babble on about your ideas about "civil rights". You're offensive and smug. I agree with melon: I have no idea why you're allowed to post most of the shit you post.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:46 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


No, I deserve a voice at the table, and the time is now,
please read my post thoughtfully.

The reasons I posted my views in this thread are:

1- To let you know I'm more or less on the side of people who we're different than me, I'm in favor of their civil rights.

2-That labeling a fellow a "bigot" when in fact what I'm saying is that Gay ppl can have everything they want -just don't change the definition of an existing word..I can't be a "bigot" or "close-minded" if I'm giving the same rights to people that I enjoy. In short this is an argument on semantics where I'm correct and some choose to misconstrue my character over it.

3-Marriage involves a penis and a vagina, any other variation of that can be called something else- with the same meaning or with even greater meaning to the parties involved.

5-My thought is if all truth and feelings were made known by the Gay community that the Gay commmunity would be ok with the designation of civil or religious unions of their orientation-as long as they have the benifits of marrieds matched- in which I've clearly stated I'm in support of. So what's the problem here people?


I think some of you hate the messenger and were deaf and closeminded to my message, thereby missing and oppurtunity to celebrate our commonalities and moving forward for the benifit of Gay ppl and because of this some of you here are unwittingly doing a dis service to the Gay community.

Peace,

<>
Diamond, I think the main issue here, and that many have with your argument is, as long as you're willing to admit that gays and lesbians are entitled to the benefits of marriage without it being called marriage, that's still relegating them to the role of second class citizen in our culture. They're entitled to everything that we are, they just can't sully the good name of an institution for straight people by calling it the same thing?

Please think about this. Many countries now are allowing gay marriage, my own included. And you know what? Our society isn't falling apart. Straight marriages are not threatened. Really. If anything, the nations that practice this are enriched, because a segment of our citizens are truly equal now. If homosexuals in your country are allowed to marry, your own marriage, and the marriages of your straight friends and family will go on as though nothing even happened. Honest.

Personally, I find the notion of calling it anything but marriage insulting, as if they are almost good enough, but they don't quite make the cut, they fall a little short, and must be kept in their place.

You keep asking people to think about the content of your posts. I have. Now think about mine, and please tell me why the word 'marriage' should be reserved for only couples comprised of a penis and vagina. It really makes no sense, other than to continue to practice a less overt form of bigotry.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:55 PM   #309
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Well, he did say "more or less".
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:57 PM   #310
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Vpunk-

Not to be smug, my 15 year old is in an all city track ( -she's a Vanilla Flo Jo of sorts) meet so I have time constraints and Im out the door- here is my short answer I do appreciate you and your country's thinking, but that's one reason America and Canada are different-not a bad thing, only different.

mar·riage Audio Help /ˈmærɪdʒ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.

Also look at my #5 answer again, is it your agenda more important then the majority of your community's?

your friend,

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Old 04-19-2008, 02:00 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

Also look at my #5 answer again, is it your agenda more important then the majority of your community's?
It was when slavery was outlawed. It was when women started agitating for the right to vote.

Dictionaries are all you have.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:10 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Vpunk-

Not to be smug, my 15 year old is in an all city track ( -she's a Vanilla Flo Jo of sorts) meet so I have time constraints and Im out the door- here is my short answer I do appreciate you and your country's thinking, but that's one reason America and Canada are different-not a bad thing, only different.

mar·riage Audio Help /ˈmærɪdʒ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.

Also look at my #5 answer again, is it your agenda more important then the majority of your community's?

your friend,

<>
I agree with Martha and the many others here who have argued against using traditional definitions. As I'm sure you know, many, many definitions have changed to meet the needs of an evolving society. It's nothing new. If definitions had never changed, consider the kind of world we'd live in now. I shudder to think. So, that argument holds no water for me.

I really doubt that you've taken a poll of every gay and lesbian in your country, and certainly, neither have I, but I strongly suspect that if questioned as to whether they'd prefer to label their legal /religious commitment to spend a lifetime together as a marriage or as something else, they'd opt for marriage just like everyone else.

Good luck to your daughter!
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:25 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
2.
wedlock: a happy marriage.
my english improves every day.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:28 PM   #314
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It just occurred to me. Mr. Civil Rights is really advocating separate but equal. So much for any civil rights arguments from here on out.

It would be hilarious, but it doesn't meet my personal definition of hilarity.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:44 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Problem with that of course is that marriage exists for people without religion too, so whatever god wants is not even really a relevant argument.
I agree.
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