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Old 12-04-2007, 11:23 PM   #46
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Exactly. I mean, I can be pretty freakin' stubborn. Ask my family and friends. However, when reality comes along and slaps me in the face, I will listen and admit when I screwed up (much as I may not like to sometimes). Being stubborn in and of itself isn't automatically a bad thing, but when it leads you to exhibit the kind of stupidity this administration has...it's time to get a reality slap. Or two. Or more.

Angela
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:32 PM   #47
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I'm so outraged at this I don't even know where to begin.

If anybody thinks they can defend this administration on ANYTHING right now, I will tell them right now that they are stupid.

That's right. If you still support Bush, you're a stupid, ignorant jackass. Period.

And that's putting it VERY politely.

I don't care if this offends anybody, because I'm offended right now myself at the fact that your Congress can't pull its shit together and impeach this joke you call a leader.

To all Bush supporters: Fuck you. Find another planet to live on. We're better off without you.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:50 PM   #48
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*pats Dave on the head*

Breathe boy, breathe.

Less than 365 days until Election Day. I HOPE he won't do anything drastically stupid with the year he has left.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:50 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Hilary's stance on war-related things is one big reason I don't plan to vote for her.
Angela
I won't go that far..yet. But it certainly gave me pause.

And your're right Irvine511 - Obama and Edwards will go after her on this issue and I'll be listening very closely.
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:26 AM   #50
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Well I doubt any Republican will defend him in this thread but they'll defend him next week in another, short attention spans...
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:21 AM   #51
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Iran is still enriching Uranium.

Iran is still funneling weapons into Iraq that are killing innocent Iraqis and American soldiers.

Iran is still connected to terrorist groups in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps is a "foreign terrorist organization." (Hillary should be given credit for recognizing this.)

Ahmadinejad is aligning himself with Hugo Chavez.

Iran is still a threat -- but the good news is maybe they're more responsive to sanctions, world-wide condemnation and yes, the hint of military intervention, than we may have believed.

That's an ignorant jackass's view anyway.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #52
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Did they honestly think we'd be stupid enough to fall for this again?
Considering they somehow managed to not only get re-elected, but turn Bush from a minority into a majority president at the same time, I can see why they thought they could pull something like this again. All they need is for the majority of the population to fall for their drivel, and it's worked in the past.

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
I'm so outraged at this I don't even know where to begin.

If anybody thinks they can defend this administration on ANYTHING right now, I will tell them right now that they are stupid.

That's right. If you still support Bush, you're a stupid, ignorant jackass. Period.

And that's putting it VERY politely.

I don't care if this offends anybody, because I'm offended right now myself at the fact that your Congress can't pull its shit together and impeach this joke you call a leader.

To all Bush supporters: Fuck you. Find another planet to live on. We're better off without you.
I second this entirely.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:30 AM   #53
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Originally posted by INDY500
Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps is a "foreign terrorist organization." (Hillary should be given credit for recognizing this.)
No, that just makes Clinton an idiot. How the hell can a state's regular army be a terrorist organisation? By broadening the term 'terrorist' that much, you rob it of all meaning whatsoever.

Quote:
Ahmadinejad is aligning himself with Hugo Chavez.
Oh. No. Ahmadinejad's a figurehead. Who cares? I don't think Hugo Chavez is the huge, sinister boogeyman some US commentators are trying to make him out to be anyway.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:56 AM   #54
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sue4u2, good point. Her stance as of now is worth weighing, but you're right, we should, as of now, continue to keep an eye on how she responds to issues related to terrorism.

Quote:
Originally posted by Axver
Considering they somehow managed to not only get re-elected, but turn Bush from a minority into a majority president at the same time, I can see why they thought they could pull something like this again. All they need is for the majority of the population to fall for their drivel, and it's worked in the past.
Good point. Very true-they seem to have learned one thing from history, and that is that fear tactics work wonders.

It's just that given the rapid drop in support the last few years, one would think that maybe they shouldn't try something like this again. But I realize expecting Bush and his cronies to use logic is asking for a lot. This Iran thing clearly smacked of desperation. I've no doubt there are things about Iran that aren't exactly savory, but geez, as pointed out by Irvine on the previous page, there are so many countries that could be seen as some sort of danger. Are we going to attack every single one that MIGHT be a threat? That'd be like me walking down the street and randomly attacking people who look suspicious because they MIGHT do something to me. It doesn't make sense.

And besides that, the best way to deal with a threat is not to start a war, 'cause that doesn't solve anything, it just angers them even more. Instead, we really, really need to start using diplomatic methods more often when dealing with other nations. Figure out why they feel the way they do, talk to them and see where some sort of compromise can come in, quit branding everybody as some vague "Axis of Evil" thing, quit punishing a bunch of innocent people for the actions of a few idiots. Stuff like that. The long-term effects of that method will be a LOT better than the long-term effects of a war.

Angela
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:17 AM   #55
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Originally posted by Axver


Oh. No. Ahmadinejad's a figurehead. Who cares? I don't think Hugo Chavez is the huge, sinister boogeyman some US commentators are trying to make him out to be anyway.
Ahmedinejad a figurehead, maybe, maybe not. But as far as presidente Chavez it's hardly just "some U.S. commentators."

There's this current thread http://forum.interference.com/t176725.html
and 51% of Venezuela.

By the way, George Bush isn't the huge, sinister, constitution-shredding boogeyman some very different U.S. commentators make him out to be either.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:55 AM   #56
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By the way, George Bush isn't the huge, sinister, constitution-shredding boogeyman some very different U.S. commentators make him out to be either.
Don't forget the Patriot Acts, and then there's this one in the works:

http://www.newstarget.com/022308.html

The police state is slowly, but surely arriving.
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:49 AM   #57
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Originally posted by ntalwar
http://www.newstarget.com/022308.html
Quote:
This is exactly how it happened in Nazi Germany. First, burn the Reichstag and blame it on the "enemy." Pass new police state laws. Disarm the people. Spread fear. Erect secret prisons and secret police. Call anyone who disagrees with you a "traitor." Control the mainstream media. Sound familiar? This is all happening right now in the United States of Amerika, and if we don't work to stop it, this nation will rapidly devolve into a fascist police state where no one is truly free.
....................................................................................
In terms of the upcoming election for U.S. President, there is only one candidate that actually believes in freedom: Ron Paul. He needs your support to win: www.RonPaul2008.com

All the other candidates are nothing more than tyrants of different political affiliations. Ron Paul is the only candidate that truly understands the fundamentals of freedom. That's why he's the only real choice for our next President. Can you imagine what Hillary Clinton would do with the police state powers that Bush has now created?
.......................................................................................
This is happening, folks. You're LIVING through an amazing chapter of history right now. You're actually witnessing the downfall of a free nation and the rise of a superpower fascist state. You're actually part of it.
Speaking of broadening terms to the point where they're robbed of all meaning whatsoever, then exploiting them for political grandstanding...
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:05 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
I'm so outraged at this I don't even know where to begin.

If anybody thinks they can defend this administration on ANYTHING right now, I will tell them right now that they are stupid.

That's right. If you still support Bush, you're a stupid, ignorant jackass. Period.

And that's putting it VERY politely.

I don't care if this offends anybody, because I'm offended right now myself at the fact that your Congress can't pull its shit together and impeach this joke you call a leader.

To all Bush supporters: Fuck you. Find another planet to live on. We're better off without you.
I am not a Bush supporter. However, for those who are, I think if you really want to get your point/opinion across to them, doing it without swearing at them and insulting them would be more effective and respected.

Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


I second this entirely.
In that case, the same to you as well.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:47 AM   #59
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There needs to be a middle ground here, and I think that, for all the sabre rattling, this is exactly what's being done. Nations like Iran (state sponsors of terrorism--i.e., Hezbollah), Venezuela and Russia ("democratatorships") have no place in the 21st century, and, rather than automatically bringing out the military and blowing them up, you can also put diplomatic pressure on them that is prolonged and repeated. Some nations, eventually, like Libya, will learn that it is better to cooperate with international law than it is to continually thumb its nose at it, and we're getting emerging signs that North Korea might be soon learning a similar lesson.

Diplomacy, in short, is often about looking tough and holding your ground, while simultaneously being open to compromise. And, in practice, "compromise" most surely ends up being the end result.

With that, it is becoming increasingly clearer that the Bush Administration is grossly incompetent at something that past presidents--Republican and Democrat alike--were better with. One argument I've read is that, in contrast to Bush, Sr.'s administration, which was divided amongst hawkish and dovish advisers (thus allowing for diversity of opinion), this current Bush's advisers are quite strikingly homogeneous, and this could be very much the reason that his policies seem like very ideologically-driven failures.

But putting our heads in the sand and wishing for world peace isn't going to change the fact that lasting peace cannot be attained without hard work and having to confront tough choices. "The End of History," as Francis Fukuyama declared in 1992 following the end of the Cold War, is woefully premature.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bonochick

I am not a Bush supporter. However, for those who are, I think if you really want to get your point/opinion across to them, doing it without swearing at them and insulting them would be more effective and respected.
I stand by every word I said.

And that was the EDITED version of what I was originally going to post.
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