Why does christianity = conservative right wing? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-04-2005, 02:17 PM   #1
The Fly
 
swissair135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 64
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

One of the biggest mysteries to me,

Jesus stood against:

Greed, arrogance, elitism, social classes, segregation, prejudice.


How is the bible in any way, cognizant with god's word?

Just because a few people decide to make lip service to whole abortion/gay thing?

Conservative christians ought to look at themselves and ask some serious questions
__________________

__________________
swissair135 is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:20 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 10:12 AM
I've wondered the same thing myself.
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:26 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:12 AM
Have they have co-opted
and perverted the term Christian?

perhaps you would be more comfortable saying
I am a follower of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:29 PM   #4
The Fly
 
swissair135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 64
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Well the majority of christians in the world, gladly dont follow the blind ideals of GWB.

The guy goes to war, gives a tax break to the rich ONLY, doesnt do anything to protect environmental issues, starts a crusade against abortion and gays (God said bread not bombs, compassion not hate).

Where the hell do these people come from?
__________________
swissair135 is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:33 PM   #5
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:12 AM
i don't know where they come form, but the form the base of the Republican party which is currently in control of all branches of government in the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. they also make no secret about the tenets of their brand of Christianity. i'm sorry that they distort the religion, but i also think it behooves others who identify as Christians to reclaim the definiton of their religion.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:39 PM   #6
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 05:12 AM
Here's a rebuttal from Catholic priest to this view of Christianity

http://207.44.245.159/article8113.htm
Pharisee Nation

American Nation Brainwashed

by John Dear

02/17/05 "CommonDreams" - - Last September, I spoke to some 2,000 students during their annual lecture at a Baptist college in Pennsylvania. After a short prayer service for peace centered on the Beatitudes, I took the stage and got right to the point. “Now let me get this straight,” I said. “Jesus says, ‘Blessed are the peacemakers,’ which means he does not say, ‘Blessed are the warmakers,’ which means, the warmakers are not blessed, which means warmakers are cursed, which means, if you want to follow the nonviolent Jesus you have to work for peace, which means, we all have to resist this horrific, evil war on the people of Iraq.”

With that, the place exploded, and 500 students stormed out. The rest of them then started chanting, “Bush! Bush! Bush!”

So much for my speech. Not to mention the Beatitudes.

I was not at all surprised that George W. Bush was reelected president. As I travel the country speaking out against war, injustice and nuclear weapons, I see many people consciously siding with the culture of war, choosing the path of violence, supporting corporate greed, rampant militarism, and global domination. I see many others swept up in the raging current of patriotism. Since most of these people, beginning with the president, claim to be Christian, I am ashamed and appalled that they support war and systemic injustice, that they do it in the name of God, and that they feign fidelity to the nonviolent Jesus who gave his life resisting institutionalized injustice.

I am reminded of Flannery O’Connor’s great book, “Wise Blood,” where her outrageous character Hazel Motes is so fed up with Christian hypocrisy that he forms his own church, the “Church of Christ without Christ,” “where the lame don’t walk, the blind don’t see, and the dead don’t rise.” That’s where we are headed today.

I used to think these all-American Christians never read the Gospel, that they simply chose not to be authentic disciples of the nonviolent Jesus. Now, alas, I think they have indeed chosen discipleship, but not to the hero of the Gospels, Jesus. Instead, through their actions, they have become disciples of the devout, religious, all-powerful, murderous Pharisees who killed him.

A Culture of Pharisees

We have become a culture of Pharisees. Instead of practicing an authentic spirituality of compassion, nonviolence, love and peace, we as a collective people have become self-righteous, arrogant, powerful, murderous hypocrites who dominate and kill others in the name of God. The Pharisees supported the brutal Roman rulers and soldiers, and lived off the comforts of the empire by running an elaborate banking system which charged an exorbitant fee for ordinary people just to worship God in the Temple. Since they taught that God was present only in the Temple, they were able to control the entire population. If anyone opposed their power or violated their law, the Pharisees could kill them on the spot, even in the holy sanctuary.

Most North American Christians are now becoming more and more like these hypocritical Pharisees. We side with the rulers, the bankers, and the corporate millionaires and billionaires. We run the Pentagon, bless the bombing raids, support executions, make nuclear weapons and seek global domination for America as if that was what the nonviolent Jesus wants. And we dismiss anyone who disagrees with us.

We have become a mean, vicious people, what the bible calls “stiff-necked people.” And we do it all with the mistaken belief that we have the blessing of God.

In the past, empires persecuted religious groups and threatened them into passivity and silence. Now these so-called Christians run the American empire, and teach a subtle spirituality of empire to back up their power in the name of God. This spirituality of empire insists that violence saves us, might makes right, war is justified, bombing raids are blessed, nuclear weapons offer the only true security from terrorism, and the good news is not love for our enemies, but the elimination of them. The empire is working hard these days to tell the nation--and the churches--what is moral and immoral, sinful and holy. It denounces certain personal behavior as immoral, in order to distract us from the blatant immorality and mortal sin of the U.S. bombing raids which have left 100,000 Iraqis dead, or our ongoing development of thousands of weapons of mass destruction. Our Pharisee rulers would have us believe that our wars and our weapons are holy and blessed by God.

In the old days, the early Christians had big words for such behavior, such lies. They were called “blasphemous, idolatrous, heretical, hypocritical and sinful.” Such words and actions were denounced as the betrayal, denial and execution of Jesus all over again in the world’s poor. But the empire needs the church to bless and support its wars, or at least to remain passive and silent. As we Christians go along with the Bush administration and the American empire, we betray Jesus, renounce his teachings, and create a “Church of Christ without Christ,“ as Flannery O’Connor foresaw.

Troublemaking Nonviolence, the Measure of the Gospel

The first thing we Christians have to do in this time is not to become good Pharisees. Instead, we have to try all over again to follow the dangerous, nonviolent, troublemaking Jesus. I believe war, weapons, corporate greed and systemic injustice are an abomination in the sight of God. They are the definition of mortal sin. They mock God and threaten to destroy God’s gift of creation. If you want to seek the living God, you have to pit your entire life against war, weapons, greed and injustice--and their perpetrators. It is as simple as that.

Every religion, including Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism, is rooted in nonviolence, but I submit that the only thing we know for sure about Jesus is that he was nonviolent and so, nonviolence is the hallmark of Christianity and the measure of authentic Christian living. Jesus commands that we love one another, love our neighbors, seek justice, forgive those who hurt us, pray for our persecutors, and be as compassionate as God. But at the center of his teaching is the most radical declaration ever uttered: “love your enemies.”

If we dare call ourselves Christian, we cannot support war or nuclear weapons or corporate greed or executions or systemic injustice of any kind. If we do, we may well be devout American citizens, but we no longer follow the nonviolent Jesus. We have joined the hypocrites and blasphemers of the land, beginning with their leaders in the White House, the Pentagon and Los Alamos.

Jesus resisted the empire, engaged in nonviolent civil disobedience in the Temple, was arrested by the Pharisees, tried by the Roman governor and executed by Roman soldiers. If we dare follow this nonviolent revolutionary, we too must resist empire, engage in nonviolent civil disobedience against U.S. warmaking and imperial domination, and risk arrest and imprisonment like the great modern day disciples, Martin Luther King, Jr., Dorothy Day and Philip Berrigan.

If we do not want to be part of the Pharisaic culture and do want to follow the nonviolent Jesus, we have to get in trouble just as Jesus was constantly in trouble for speaking the truth, loving the wrong people, worshipping the wrong way, and promoting the wrong things, like justice and peace. We have to resist this new American empire, as well as its false spirituality and all those who claim to be Christian yet support the murder of other human beings. We have to repent of the sin of war, put down the sword, practice Gospel nonviolence, and take up the cross of revolutionary nonviolence by loving our enemies and discovering what the spiritual life is all about.

Just because the culture and the cultural church have joined with the empire and its wars does not mean that we all have to go along with such heresy, or fall into despair as if nothing can be done. It is never too late to try to follow the troublemaking Jesus, to join his practice of revolutionary nonviolence and become authentic Christians. We may find ourselves in trouble, even at the hands of so-called Christians, just as Jesus was in trouble at the hands of the so-called religious leaders of his day. But this very trouble may lead us back to those Beatitude blessings.

John Dear is a Jesuit priest and the author/editor of 20 books including most recently, “The Questions of Jesus” and “Living Peace” both published by Doubleday. He lives in New Mexico where he is working on a campaign to disarm Los Alamos. For info, see: www.johndear.org
__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:43 PM   #7
The Fly
 
swissair135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 64
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Beautiful.

Its absolutely unbelievable that people are not objective enough to criticize themsleves.
__________________
swissair135 is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 11:12 AM
It should also be noted the Pope was against the Iraq war.

So this Catholic priest is certainly more in line with the Vatican than the hypocritical Catholic bishops (I forget their names) who said you had to vote Bush to be a good Catholic! They should have had their ministries withdrawn in my view.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:02 PM   #9
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: texas.
Posts: 459
Local Time: 10:12 AM
__________________
edgeboy is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:03 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:12 AM
Re: Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by swissair135
One of the biggest mysteries to me,

Jesus stood against:

Greed, arrogance, elitism, social classes, segregation, prejudice.


How is the bible in any way, cognizant with god's word?

Just because a few people decide to make lip service to whole abortion/gay thing?

Conservative christians ought to look at themselves and ask some serious questions
You raise two issues here.

First, who is a Christian? We've never really discussed this in detail, but I'm sure we have divergent views as to what are the "non-disputable" articles of faith. I've seen many things suggested in different threads, up to and including "good people".

As far as I've read, no one has suggested that Christianity is only what conservative Christians believe, but I am sure many will infer such a message.

Second, your statement "How is the bible in any way, cognizant with god's word" is somewhat confusing.

Based on the sentence prior to the one quoted, you are suggesting a way to define the core values of a Christian.

What has been typically labeled as "conservative Christian" is a methodology that defines Christian values solely from the Bible, and from a strict interpretation of the Bible (taking Scripture as inherent, etc.).

I'm sure you can realize that your statements (and those of others, including articles) would support a similar question "Why does Christianity = liberal left wing?" There is plenty of finger pointing as to what is "proper" belief and value on both sides.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:05 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
It should also be noted the Pope was against the Iraq war.

So this Catholic priest is certainly more in line with the Vatican than the hypocritical Catholic bishops (I forget their names) who said you had to vote Bush to be a good Catholic! They should have had their ministries withdrawn in my view.
Interesting how some with get in line with the Pope when it suits their politics and then bash the hell out of the Pope when his statements don't suit their politics.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:10 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Interesting how some with get in line with the Pope when it suits their politics and then bash the hell out of the Pope when his statements don't suit their politics.
I'm not "getting in line" with the Pope. At the end of the day the Pope opposed the Iraq war - so if Catholic priests or bishops spoke out in favour of it they should have been hauled up on discplinary charges or whatever the equivalent is. If an officer of a company is going against a company's policy surely he can except a wrap on the knuckles from senior management?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:11 PM   #13
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: texas.
Posts: 459
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Why are liberals so negative?You spend so much time bashing
republicans you don't focus on your own beliefs. And im trying
to be honest here.
__________________
edgeboy is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:13 PM   #14
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


I'm not "getting in line" with the Pope. At the end of the day the Pope opposed the Iraq war - so if Catholic priests or bishops spoke out in favour of it they should have been hauled up on discplinary charges or whatever the equivalent is. If an officer of a company is going against a company's policy surely he can except a wrap on the knuckles from senior management?
Son, there is a much bigger problem in the Catholic Church than a lack of unity of the Iraq war.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-04-2005, 03:15 PM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Son, there is a much bigger problem in the Catholic Church than a lack of unity of the Iraq war.
Well yes that is true. Several bigger problems in fact.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com