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Old 03-06-2005, 01:39 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Quite simply, Christianity is neither right wing or left wing.
I agree 100%. It's not politics, it's spirituality.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
People who attempt to make Christianity fit into their political agenda and condemn all others who disagree with them are completely against what Christianity is all about.
I find that to be true on both sides.
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:48 PM   #122
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I agree 100%. I'm a Christian myself and do not feel that way at all.
I should have noted that I meant the supporters of religious right's support of Republican agendas. How do they justify that support.

I
I wish I knew.........

I know perfectly intelligent, upstanding "Christian" honorable people who really buy into that crap.

As Irvine said, and I've said many times before, the Dems could really stand to learn a thing or 2 about media manipulation and constructing sensitive straw-man positions of mass appeal and minimal impact.

How a President fighting an unpopular war in the middle of an economic downturn can be re-elected by such a wide margin speaks volumes about the Dems' ability to wage an election, and the Republicans' abilities too.
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Old 03-06-2005, 02:51 PM   #123
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Originally posted by cardosino


I wish I knew.........

I know perfectly intelligent, upstanding "Christian" honorable people who really buy into that crap.

As Irvine said, and I've said many times before, the Dems could really stand to learn a thing or 2 about media manipulation and constructing sensitive straw-man positions of mass appeal and minimal impact.

How a President fighting an unpopular war in the middle of an economic downturn can be re-elected by such a wide margin speaks volumes about the Dems' ability to wage an election, and the Republicans' abilities too.
Yeah. Frustration, frustration.
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Old 03-06-2005, 03:05 PM   #124
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the dems have a big problem, i think. one of the reasons why a conservatives and republicans are currently ascendent and in such deft control of the media is the nature of the conservative message itself -- it's, almost by definition, clear, cut-and-dried, black-and-white, and simple (note: simple does not mean easy, or dumb, or stupid).

in our media-overload culture, the message that shines through is a clear soundbyte -- you know what you're getting in less than 5 seconds. heck, even check out Bono, a soundbyte machine and how he describes both a new album and what U2 is doing now in a single sentence.

liberals get consumed with complexity, nuance, complication, and things like "the integrity of the process." all of this is well and good, in theory, but it doesn't translate well into an effective message. i also admire how the republicans fall in line, keep their eyes on the prize, wake up early, settle problems behind closed doors, and are just in general better organized in a highly corporate top-down structure.

in short, i think liberals need to start to kick ass again -- lest we start to look like Susan Sarandon-ish weenies (she's a great actress, though). i also think that the loose coalition of minority groups who fall under the label liberal -- gays among them -- need to think of themselves as soldiers serving a cause greater than themselves, rather than waiting for the cause to cater to them and their specific needs. one example might be gay marriage -- while the idealist in me knows that nothing less than full rights and respect is deserved, the politically smart thing to have done would have been to either wait until after the election, or simply push a clintonian "third way" solution of Civil Unions.

alas, that didn't happen, and we lost again. new thinking is required, and the second i know how to either reduce the complexity of the liberal message, or we destroy the tyranny of the simple soundbyte, i'll let everyone -- especially the Dems -- know.

until then ...
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Old 03-06-2005, 03:57 PM   #125
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I agree Irvine511 (except for the SS part).

Where are the conservative Voices?
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Old 03-06-2005, 04:18 PM   #126
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i only pick on susan sarandon because she and Tim Robins embody what i think drives people nuts about liberals -- that they think they're smarter than you, and if you'd just let them teach you, you'd see things that way.

while that's probably not entirely fair, i do think that's how they come across (as well as how they are painted by the right wing). in DC, we get all sorts of strange political commercials that i don't remember getting when i lived in New England -- commercials from everything from Lockheed Martin to The People of Saudi Arabia to myriad special interest groups. i remember, preceeding the iraq war, a commercial with Ms. Sarandon in which she said something to the effect of, "and when i think about bombs falling on all those women and children ..." and it's like -- just why do you think your opinion matters so much! (and i agreed with her!)

bono does this too, to some extent. his saving grace is that he has credibility and buckets of knowledge about boring things like numbers and policy -- sadly, actors like Sean Penn don't seem to be able to back themselves up as well as our man.
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Old 03-07-2005, 04:59 AM   #127
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I've watched Susan & Tim on different wonky shows. Robbins was in NPC - CSPAN (one of my favorite channels) and Susan on LinkTV with the Dalai + a show about Heifer Intl. as spokesperson. Both were well informed about numbers & policy. They are not portrayed as such in the mainstream media.

Still on conserv. response
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:40 AM   #128
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christianity has never been about liberals to begin with. all that 'be perfect' talk sounds pretty damn neocon in my opinion.
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Old 03-07-2005, 08:09 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
Still on conserv. response
You've said this twice. What are you looking for?
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Old 03-07-2005, 01:42 PM   #130
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Why would a conservative choose to come into this discussion? So we can bash and brand them?
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Old 03-07-2005, 03:19 PM   #131
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Originally posted by earthshell
christianity has never been about liberals to begin with. all that 'be perfect' talk sounds pretty damn neocon in my opinion.
...

*twitch*

Have you READ the Bible?

Any part of it at all. I'm curious.
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Old 03-07-2005, 04:25 PM   #132
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Apparently not.

The pastors in the United States sure have done a good job to correlate the Bush agenda with Christianity.

God help us all...
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Old 03-07-2005, 05:04 PM   #133
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Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....
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Old 03-07-2005, 05:10 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....
That must be it.....

Conservatives, like myself, are afraid.......very afriad.......

Please......
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Old 03-07-2005, 05:25 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....
Plenty of folks come in here to discuss Scripture (OT and NT)

By TRUTH, I assume you mean the Truth found in Scripture.....
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