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Old 03-05-2005, 07:26 AM   #106
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Quie simply, Christianity is neither right wing or left wing.

People who attempt to make Christianity fit into their political agenda and condemn all others who disagree with them are completely against what Christianity is all about.

If the conservatives here who want to always bash those of us who continue to remind them of our COMMAND as Christians to attend to the needs of the poor, let me remind them of:



THE FIRST EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE
CORINTHIANS

CHAPTER 13
Paul extols the high status of charity—Charity, a pure love, excels and exceeds almost all else.

1 THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of aprophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity denvieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her bown, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.




The Beatitudes

1And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:


3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you


Anything else that we come up with pales in comparision with these words by the masters.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:53 AM   #107
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Saddam did more damage than the Taliban ever did ~ he just had the veneer of modernity masking the opression and death.
But that wasn't the reason we invaded Iraq. It was out of fear that his "oppression and death" would hit the U.S. mainland. Same with Afghanistan, really. But I guess it's okay when Saudi Arabia beheads people, because it's our "ally." Hell, they even torture our suspects for us!

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Old 03-05-2005, 07:55 AM   #108
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. God is your own damn inventions and you all see exactly what you want to see in it ~ a god who loves and accepts homosexuality versus a god who hates the sin but loves the sinner, a god who is universal versus a god who is exclusively Christian or whatever. Can't people fucking seperate their politics and their bloody religion or are their heads so permanently up their arses that they have to pull in divine authority to justify their arguments.

Bush is not influenced by God, Bush is not influenced by Satan ~ he is influenced by his own faith and those principles that he believes in whether you like them or not.

i don't agree with your position on the war, but when it comes to the role religion should play in politics -- which is to say, no role at all -- all i can say is

bush was recently quoted as saying that the freedom we're seeing in the middle east (a debatable statement) comes not from america, but from a higher power (loosely paraphrased). garbage. that freedom comes from other people agreeing upon a shared set of values -- i.e., each individual life has worth -- and then people agreeing, en masse, to live these principles. it has nothing to do with God, though i suppose a faith in a higher power that confers a sense of worth and allows the shepard covered in sheep shit to come in off the field and point at the pharoh and say "in the eyes of god we are equal," is a powerful thing. fine. that's alovely idea, but it only has power when it finds a secular political expression. but God does not grant freedom -- people do. and this is what we saw in the Ukraine, people seizing control of the destiny of their country, doing that old Republican cliche of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and saying, "no, we will not let Moscow dictate our elections."

God didn't do it. people did. this is existential freedom at its finest.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:13 AM   #109
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i don't know where they come form, but the form the base of the Republican party which is currently in control of all branches of government in the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. they also make no secret about the tenets of their brand of Christianity. i'm sorry that they distort the religion, but i also think it behooves others who identify as Christians to reclaim the definiton of their religion.
Many already do. Not publicized in the media too much of course.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:20 AM   #110
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Jamila thanks for your post.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:26 AM   #111
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Many already do. Not publicized in the media too much of course.

then work harder at getting your message out. learn how to work the apparatus in the same way your more conservative Christians already have. don't whine and blame the media, make the media work for you.

they're winning. fight back.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:30 AM   #112
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Originally posted by Irvine511



then work harder at getting your message out. learn how to work the apparatus in the same way your more conservative Christians already have. don't whine and blame the media, make the media work for you.

they're winning. fight back.
We're getting there........

God's Politics being on the New YorK Times Best seller list is helping, it won't be an overnight victory though.

You of all people should know how long radical mindset changes can take.
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:04 AM   #113
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Originally posted by cardosino


We're getting there........

God's Politics being on the New YorK Times Best seller list is helping, it won't be an overnight victory though.

You of all people should know how long radical mindset changes can take.

i do. and i do wish you the best of luck.

and when you figure out how to work the media as well as the conservative political Christians, please let the democrats know.

they could use the help these days.
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:27 AM   #114
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In the past, Saddam was buoyed by oil revenues.

Take that money out of his hands, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia.... then you have the conditions for a major democratic revolution in that area.

Take that many away from the rich monarchy in Saudi Arabia, and the whole place will change, long-term of course.
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:36 PM   #115
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You're welcome, Golightly Grrrl.

It is amazing that everyone talks AROUND the New Testament, but when reminded of the DIRECT WORDS in that sacred text, "christians" ignore them.

The test of a Christian's Faith is the degree to which they devote AS MUCH OF THEIR LIFE AS POSSIBLE to the direct alleviation of others' pain and suffering in the world.

All the pretty churches and all the sweet sounding hymns in the world means nothing to the God of the New Testament. It is what YOU DO for others that will get you into Heaven.

And many christians just don't get it.

I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:58 AM   #116
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:24 AM   #117
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It's curious that the discussion of the the right's subversion of Christ's teachings was rerailed to a discussion on the authority/punishment of God. I didn't hear one defense or explanation for the tenets endorsed by the "Moral Majority" nor for the actions of this administration as upholding the word of God. To my understanding, as Jamila pointed out, they are in direct contrast to the NT.

So, if you take abortion and Gay rights out of the equation, how do Christians support the Republican agenda of corporate welfare, unequal taxation, and reducing programs that assist the poor?
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:47 AM   #118
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
It's curious that the discussion of the the right's subversion of Christ's teachings was rerailed to a discussion on the authority/punishment of God. I didn't hear one defense or explanation for the tenets endorsed by the "Moral Majority" nor for the actions of this administration as upholding the word of God. To my understanding, as Jamila pointed out, they are in direct contrast to the NT.

So, if you take abortion and Gay rights out of the equation, how do Christians support the Republican agenda of corporate welfare, unequal taxation, and reducing programs that assist the poor?
Not all Christians do.......many do not.
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:47 AM   #119
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I agree 100%. I'm a Christian myself and do not feel that way at all.
I should have noted that I meant the supporters of religious right's support of Republican agendas. How do they justify that support.

I
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:38 PM   #120
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The only way the "progressive Christian" can effectively fight back is start their own TV station, (not simply a talk show or three, or a radio personality or two,) but a TV STATION on the order of Fox news, that does the left-wing version of what Fox does for the right. Considering that for the most part, Fox, which started out a decent station with an ABC-like rightward tilt, has degenerated under the present Bush to little more than a government propagnda mouthpice for Adminsitration policies and lobbying machanism (I wonder what would happen if somebody like O'Rielly privately got ticked off at a certain "proposed"guest on his show, and tried to refuse to have them on the air? It seems that whenver Bush wants someone to promote a train of thought, they get instant Fox access). For the most part, their methods of "reporting" turn me off too. The Left--and leftist Christians--would have to stoop to that simplistic level of "reporting", have that same kind of rapic-fire government access, and resort to the simlistivc tactics of shouting, cutting people off when they don't agree, etc etc. They would also have to be immune to criticism fromany quarters, any hint of scandal would have to mysteriously disappear immediately, no matter how large, and they would have to have unlimited funds coming from any number of lobbying groups.

There would also have to be a full-tilt publishing house,or funded part of major publishing houses, pushing progressive beleifs. Every time I turn around, there is a new book coming out about "character", and Bush is on the cover. One book or two won'tcut it. Sometimes I think Bush has a "publishing fund" to shell to prople, urging them to write good things about him.

The radical conservative apparatus is not only too well-funded (corporate America knoiws where its bread is buttered) but has too easy government access. I don't think anyprevious Administration has been so aggressive in pushing its "legacy" so well in advance, before its existence is even over.
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