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Old 03-04-2005, 05:25 PM   #76
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


No. It is telling non-Christians "Christ’s way or the highway". It is what we read in Scripture.

You can accept it, reject it, ignore it, or discuss it.

You are not the first to struggle or reject the idea that salvation is in Christ alone.

Yes, it sounds "exclusive" or "intolerant". But Jesus' teachings were radical for their time and are radical today.
with such inherent belief that the god is on their side, that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it is no wonder that conservative christians are impossible to convince

scripture would of course write that, it couldnt really say, 'well, this is what we got down so far, wait for the next edition of our holy book series, we'll send one as soon as its finished!'

frankly, i believe that god probably did send us messengers, although we persecuted and brutally killed some of them, but there is no way i could accept the idea of christianity that is being presented at the moment. christ's way or the highway? no thanks.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:29 PM   #77
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All I Want — God is perfect and holy. This is true. He did create us to live our lives too, I never said he didn't. He created us to have a relationship with him, including loving him (ie worship him. and worship doesn't mean bowing down to an authority as a requirement, it means loving him with all your heart. What's wrong with that?) Think of it as a father having children. Is a parent who wants to have children selfish, or loving? My wife and I have two boys — 22-month-old Brendan and 3-month-old Aidan. My wife and I didn't have kids so they would be our slaves and bow down before us and serve our needs only, we had children out of love. We wanted to love children, be there for them, help them grow, learn and live. It's the same thing with God. You're God's child and so am I.
God doesn't need our love, he wants it.

You said the best way to appreciate God's love is to appreciate the life he gave us and to keep living — I would say that's part of it. However, it's also how you live to. If my son grows up and constantly disobeys me as a father and goes against me in everything he does and denies me as a parental figure, but continues to live, is he really showing me love?
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:29 PM   #78
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Well, anyway Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all share the same roots, to an extent! I know there are quite a few significant theological differences between them.

As a non-believer in either of the three Gods I have my own opinions on which I prefer - but that could only be because I am from a Christian background. When leaders of countries start claiming they have God on their side, that's when I get worried.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:31 PM   #79
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Originally posted by all_i_want
with such inherent belief that the god is on their side, that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it is no wonder that conservative christians are impossible to convince
Convince of what? That we are evil?

And it is not a belief that God is on our side. We are on God's side.

Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
scripture would of course write that, it couldnt really say, 'well, this is what we got down so far, wait for the next edition of our holy book series, we'll send one as soon as its finished!'
Wait, people try this all the time. Look at the Book of Mormon. It is claimed to be the next edition.

Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
frankly, i believe that god probably did send us messengers, although we persecuted and brutally killed some of them, but there is no way i could accept the idea of christianity that is being presented at the moment. christ's way or the highway? no thanks.
OK.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:32 PM   #80
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I agree with you there financeguy! (can we use this as a way back to the original point of the thread now?)
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:33 PM   #81
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My wife and I have two boys — 22-month-old Brendan and 3-month-old Aidan.
Two good Irish names there!
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:34 PM   #82
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Originally posted by financeguy
Well, anyway Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all share the same roots, to an extent! I know there are quite a few significant theological differences between them.

As a non-believer in either of the three Gods I have my own opinions on which I prefer - but that could only be because I am from a Christian background. When leaders of countries start claiming they have God on their side, that's when I get worried.


true

everyone can believe whatever they want, as long as they dont disregard other people's faiths by, lets say, saying our way is the only way and the rest of you are going to hell. all three religions suffer from this and i dont think it is a positive contribution to co-existence of people of different beliefs.

edit: nbc, im not saying conservative christians are evil or anything, everyone's faith to themselves, but saying your way is the only way is equal to saying everyone else is wrong, and in a religious context i find that intolerant towards people of different faith
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:35 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Convince of what? That we are evil?



no,

just an alternative point of view.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:36 PM   #84
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That's why I picked the names, finance guy. I think I told you before, I have Irish blood in me and I've visited the mother land and call it my real home now. Beautiful place. You're a lucky guy to live there.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:38 PM   #85
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That's why I picked the names, finance guy. I think I told you before, I have Irish blood in me and I've visited the mother land and call it my real home now. Beautiful place. You're a lucky guy to live there.
Yes indeed I remember our discussion on the William Lane Craig debate.

Ireland has its pros and cons like anywhere else!
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:47 PM   #86
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I'm outta here. Peace and God bless.
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:59 PM   #87
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Yes, just war is the only war that's condoned by God. I'm saying the "turn the other cheek" argument doesn't apply here.
Actually there is something remarkable going on there. Jesus was speaking to those who live in poverty. Many times Roman guards would slap, beat, kick the shit of the poor. Jesus was saying that if a person of high stature (such as a guard) were to slap you they would've back handed you. An open hand slap means the two are equal. So, turn your other check...either he'll slap you with an open hand (thus making you his equal) or he'll stop slapping you because he doesn't want you to be his equal.
Gandhi, for one, really took this to heart. Jesus' message here is for civil disobedience. Amazing!
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:14 PM   #88
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I'm a practicing Catholic. All last year I kept hearing people say that I couldn't vote for Kerry and be a decent Catholic at the same time. Well, as it turned out this was *not* the official position of the Church. We were strongly encouraged to vote, but no one told me who to vote for. We heard some stuff about the issues from the pulpit, not surprisingly, abortion and gay marriage, in particular. A document called "A Catholic Call to Citizenship" was put out in every church, and it encouraged Catholics to vote based on the "consistent life ethic" which was the brainchild of Joseph Cardinal Bernardin and adopted by the Church. This includes abortion, but also health care, opposition to capital punishment and war, including opposition to pre-emptive strikes. So, it did not come down clearly on the side of either candidate. I chose Kerry. I did decide not to put a bumper sticker on my car because he was controversial in the church for his position on abortion and I go to church to get strength, not to engage in the latest controversies. The majority of practicing Catholics voted for Bush. I saw a gazillion Bush buttons in church during the campaign; I didn't see a single Kerry button, maybe the others were like me and didn't want controversy. But I'm all for taking the politics out of Christianity, I really don't like to mix them.
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:59 PM   #89
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God wants a relantionship with us, in order to make a positive contribution. God has the morals that we need to suceed. But if we are not willing to listen to god, and the particular morals, then we become selfish, and focus on "selfish and individual salvation".. How many christians give a crap about what goes on in Africa.. the genocide, the starving people? How many of us christians had to balls to vote against the lunatic in office at the White House?

Christians control the western world, yet it remains one full of sin. So Somebody is missing the point.. maybe god is not fully onboard with us.

The war in Iraq was an agression.

It is fact, that once Saddam was thrown out, the americans troops first safeguarded the oil fields. Museums on ancient babylonian history, including timeless and priceless artifacts, were looted at free willl.. never to be found again,

Over 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died in this war, not to mention 2,000 coalition troops,

THIS IS NOT PART OF GOD'S PLAN

This is Satan, manipulating the figure of god to keep the world's most powerful economy, in control of the world's 2nd biggest proven reserve of oil.. IRAQ.

Wish to debate this point... go ahead.

Bush has more in touch with Satan than Jesus.

God bless and peace.

Mark
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:05 PM   #90
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The war in Iraq was an agression.

It is fact, that once Saddam was thrown out, the americans troops first safeguarded the oil fields. Museums on ancient babylonian history, including timeless and priceless artifacts, were looted at free willl.. never to be found again,

Over 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died in this war, not to mention 2,000 coalition troops,

THIS IS NOT PART OF GOD'S PLAN

This is Satan, manipulating the figure of god to keep the world's most powerful nature, in control of the world's 2nd biggest proven reserve of oil.. IRAQ.

Wish to debate this point... go ahead.

Bush has more in touch with Satan than Jesus.

God bless and peace.

Mark
Well personally I think comparing Bush to Satan is over the top. Criticize his policies, criticize the man even, but I don't think bringing Satan into it is helpful to the debate.

In terms of your point about the war being about oil there may be some merit in that argument - but consider this, how can it be in the interests of oil companies to have prices going haywire as a result of war/instability? Their interest is in stability of oil prices surely and oil companies are happy to do business with anyone, including Saddam, once they have that!
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