Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

[Macfistowannabe]

Quite simply, Christianity is neither right wing or left wing.

I agree 100%. It's not politics, it's spirituality.

People who attempt to make Christianity fit into their political agenda and condemn all others who disagree with them are completely against what Christianity is all about.

I find that to be true on both sides.

 

[cardosino]

I agree 100%. I'm a Christian myself and do not feel that way at all.
I should have noted that I meant the supporters of religious right's support of Republican agendas. How do they justify that support.

I

I wish I knew.........

I know perfectly intelligent, upstanding "Christian" honorable people who really buy into that crap.

As Irvine said, and I've said many times before, the Dems could really stand to learn a thing or 2 about media manipulation and constructing sensitive straw-man positions of mass appeal and minimal impact.

How a President fighting an unpopular war in the middle of an economic downturn can be re-elected by such a wide margin speaks volumes about the Dems' ability to wage an election, and the Republicans' abilities too.

 

[verte76]

I wish I knew.........

I know perfectly intelligent, upstanding "Christian" honorable people who really buy into that crap.

As Irvine said, and I've said many times before, the Dems could really stand to learn a thing or 2 about media manipulation and constructing sensitive straw-man positions of mass appeal and minimal impact.

How a President fighting an unpopular war in the middle of an economic downturn can be re-elected by such a wide margin speaks volumes about the Dems' ability to wage an election, and the Republicans' abilities too.

Yeah. Frustration, frustration.

 

[Irvine511]

the dems have a big problem, i think. one of the reasons why a conservatives and republicans are currently ascendent and in such deft control of the media is the nature of the conservative message itself -- it's, almost by definition, clear, cut-and-dried, black-and-white, and simple (note: simple does not mean easy, or dumb, or stupid).

in our media-overload culture, the message that shines through is a clear soundbyte -- you know what you're getting in less than 5 seconds. heck, even check out Bono, a soundbyte machine and how he describes both a new album and what U2 is doing now in a single sentence.

liberals get consumed with complexity, nuance, complication, and things like "the integrity of the process." all of this is well and good, in theory, but it doesn't translate well into an effective message. i also admire how the republicans fall in line, keep their eyes on the prize, wake up early, settle problems behind closed doors, and are just in general better organized in a highly corporate top-down structure.

in short, i think liberals need to start to kick ass again -- lest we start to look like Susan Sarandon-ish weenies (she's a great actress, though). i also think that the loose coalition of minority groups who fall under the label liberal -- gays among them -- need to think of themselves as soldiers serving a cause greater than themselves, rather than waiting for the cause to cater to them and their specific needs. one example might be gay marriage -- while the idealist in me knows that nothing less than full rights and respect is deserved, the politically smart thing to have done would have been to either wait until after the election, or simply push a clintonian "third way" solution of Civil Unions.

alas, that didn't happen, and we lost again. new thinking is required, and the second i know how to either reduce the complexity of the liberal message, or we destroy the tyranny of the simple soundbyte, i'll let everyone -- especially the Dems -- know.

until then ...

 

[Scarletwine]

I agree Irvine511 (except for the SS part).

Where are the conservative Voices?

 

[Irvine511]

i only pick on susan sarandon because she and Tim Robins embody what i think drives people nuts about liberals -- that they think they're smarter than you, and if you'd just let them teach you, you'd see things that way.

while that's probably not entirely fair, i do think that's how they come across (as well as how they are painted by the right wing). in DC, we get all sorts of strange political commercials that i don't remember getting when i lived in New England -- commercials from everything from Lockheed Martin to The People of Saudi Arabia to myriad special interest groups. i remember, preceeding the iraq war, a commercial with Ms. Sarandon in which she said something to the effect of, "and when i think about bombs falling on all those women and children ..." and it's like -- just why do you think your opinion matters so much! (and i agreed with her!)

bono does this too, to some extent. his saving grace is that he has credibility and buckets of knowledge about boring things like numbers and policy -- sadly, actors like Sean Penn don't seem to be able to back themselves up as well as our man.

 

[Scarletwine]

I've watched Susan & Tim on different wonky shows. Robbins was in NPC - CSPAN (one of my favorite channels) and Susan on LinkTV with the Dalai + a show about Heifer Intl. as spokesperson. Both were well informed about numbers & policy. They are not portrayed as such in the mainstream media.

Still on conserv. response

 

[earthshell]

christianity has never been about liberals to begin with. all that 'be perfect' talk sounds pretty damn neocon in my opinion.

 

[nbcrusader]

Still on conserv. response

You've said this twice. What are you looking for?

 

[Dreadsox]

Why would a conservative choose to come into this discussion? So we can bash and brand them?

 

[XHendrix24]

christianity has never been about liberals to begin with. all that 'be perfect' talk sounds pretty damn neocon in my opinion.

...

*twitch*

Have you READ the Bible?

Any part of it at all. I'm curious.

 

[swissair135]

Apparently not.

The pastors in the United States sure have done a good job to correlate the Bush agenda with Christianity.

God help us all...

 

[Jamila]

Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....

 

[Dreadsox]

Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....

That must be it.....

Conservatives, like myself, are afraid.......very afriad.......

Please......

 

[nbcrusader]

Maybe folks don't come in this thread because they're afraid of being confronted with the TRUTH of the NT.

Just a thought....

Plenty of folks come in here to discuss Scripture (OT and NT)

By TRUTH, I assume you mean the Truth found in Scripture.....

 

[Scarletwine]

Please give me a freakin break. Over and over again Libs have been bashed as unpatriotic, elitists ect.

I want to really know how NBC ect can support the domestic policies of the Bush admin. as a Christian. No bashing intended. I want the justificatation for support of his policies. I don't exactly put Dread in that catagory except as devil's advocate

Seriously, my step-father in law is a conservative fundamentalist Baptist whom has supported the admin until lately. My mother-in-law and i have been having frank calm discussions with him and after a few months he can no longer explain his fidelity to Bush. Mostly after exposure to other explanations for events other than FOX. \

I'm not an elitist, I want to know and maybe really debate interpretations.
Thanks.

 

[Jamila]

yea, nb, like this Truth:


The test of a Christian's Faith is the degree to which they devote AS MUCH OF THEIR LIFE AS POSSIBLE to the direct alleviation of others' pain and suffering in the world.

All the pretty churches and all the sweet sounding hymns in the world means nothing to the God of the New Testament. It is what YOU DO for others that will get you into Heaven.

And many christians just don't get it.

 

[nbcrusader]

I want to really know how NBC ect can support the domestic policies of the Bush admin. as a Christian. No bashing intended. I want the justificatation for support of his policies. I don't exactly put Dread in that catagory except as devil's advocate

I'm not an elitist, I want to know and maybe really debate interpretations.
Thanks.

Its all good. And an interesting topic for discussion.

If we look at the spectrum of domestic issues, I'm not sure there is one "Christian" position for each issue.

We can look at issues in very general terms and make very general statements about what is the "Christian" thing to do.

Take poverty, for example. The Bible teaches us to help the poor. Does this mean we look to the government to completely solve the problem? Can government solve the problem? At what funding level does the social policy become "Christian"?

Or "gay marriage" - there is a clear divergence in what the Christian view is.

Would you like to make a list of domestic policy issues?

 

[Dreadsox]

Please give me a freakin break. Over and over again Libs have been bashed as unpatriotic, elitists ect.

Are we talking bashed in general, or in this forum?

I am sorry, but there is NO WAY, you can say the liberals in this forum have been bashed.

Give me a break!!!!!

Maybe God is revealing who God is in Liberal and Conservative ways! Maybe God is neither, but both.

Maybe not everything this administration does is EVIL, but suits God's purpose, in one way or another.

 

[nbcrusader]

yea, nb, like this Truth:


The test of a Christian's Faith is the degree to which they devote AS MUCH OF THEIR LIFE AS POSSIBLE to the direct alleviation of others' pain and suffering in the world.

All the pretty churches and all the sweet sounding hymns in the world means nothing to the God of the New Testament. It is what YOU DO for others that will get you into Heaven.

And many christians just don't get it.

Salvation is by grace alone, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:9

Our RESPONSE to God's gift of grace can take MANY forms.

Frankly, I am surprised at your open willingness to condem so many Christians based on your own standard of belief.

 

[nbcrusader]

Maybe not everything this administration does is EVIL, but suits God's purpose, in one way or another.

A very important consideration - we cannot see the things God sees.

 

[Dreadsox]

Take poverty, for example. The Bible teaches us to help the poor. Does this mean we look to the government to completely solve the problem? Can government solve the problem? At what funding level does the social policy become "Christian"?

I feel this is an OUTSTANDING point!

I do not want my governement taking my $$$$ and distributing it where they want to.

It is not the governments responsisbility to do this. back in the 1700's the people within a community helped their neighbor. the town, and local governments took care of their poor and needy, not the FEDERAL governement.

I would not be opposed to a more localized approach towards helping the poor because I am much more likely to be involved and have a say about the management of the money.

That said, the world judges the US by the contributions made by its government. WE forget that the American people give and give and give out of their pockets to many charities and organizations. This is somehow forgotten and not figured in.

 

[schnazdoodle]

There's a book out called God's Politics that addresses this issue... Bono, in fact, is quoted on the back cover.... :0)

 

[Dreadsox]

Frankly, I am surprised at your open willingness to condem so many Christians based on your own standard of belief.

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[Dreadsox]

yea, nb, like this Truth:


The test of a Christian's Faith is the degree to which they devote AS MUCH OF THEIR LIFE AS POSSIBLE to the direct alleviation of others' pain and suffering in the world.

All the pretty churches and all the sweet sounding hymns in the world means nothing to the God of the New Testament. It is what YOU DO for others that will get you into Heaven.

And many christians just don't get it.

the God of the New testament is the same exact God as the God of the Old testament.

God IS....Period.

 

[swissair135]

NBCrusader,

In the new testament, Jesus speaks out against elitism, greed, tax collectors, self-righteousness .. speaks for killing poverty, speaks for helping others before helping one's self.

There is no godly justification for Right-wing politics, but there is none for liberals either... but this isnt about liberal vs the right.. this is about the right, and the Right has it wrong

 

[nbcrusader]

The New Testament makes no statements about what a governement should do. If fact, Paul tells us in Romans that we should be good citizens (obedience to government).

That being said, I think it is far more important what we do individually. As Dread pointed out, individuals give to charity - money, time and talents.

 

[Dreadsox]

There was a reason I had no interest in this thread.

I remember it now.....

because good forum members like 80's U2 is Best and U2Bama (Who thankfully has been appearing again) do not feel welcome. Because when they and others have expressed their opinions in the past, they have been run out of town.

And the flipping and the cute faces people use when they bash these members...just do not cut it.

 

[Scarletwine]

Are we talking bashed in general, or in this forum?

I am sorry, but there is NO WAY, you can say the liberals in this forum have been bashed.

No I meant in RW media.

Maybe God is revealing who God is in Liberal and Conservative ways! Maybe God is neither, but both.

Maybe not everything this administration does is EVIL, but suits God's purpose, in one way or another.

I agree God is not either.

In reply to both of you. I agree the gov't cannot eliminate poverty, but I want my tax dollars going to help eleviate the worst, especially supporting mothers and children (I don't believe in the fake welfare quessn shit anymore). I also want healthcare for all children with my tax dollars, maybe even for all citizens. I also agree individuals help is the most effective way to proceed, but it cannot accomplish care that our gov't can.

This only one issue and $$ seem to carry your opinion.

I think your bringing up 80's and U2Bama is bullshit, though I miss their input. FYM's composition comes and goes. Lately it's been more heavily on the consv. Christian side or the libs have been awful quiet. The lead up to the war was very stressful and we all took emotional hits, whether for or against. The election pounded a few more stakes. I know I've been sapped and hesitent to even get involved in discussions (course I'm sure my feelings are for much different reason - like how much worse can it get and it's only been 3 months)

So what about the new bankruptcy law, the new AIDS initiatives (or better yet the dimantleing), the deficit's burdon on our children, cutting education funding like head start. I can get a list.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think your bringing up 80's and U2Bama is bullshit, though I miss their input.

Was it also bullshit when I brought up Klaus, and emailed him trying to get him to stay.

Was it also bullshit when I defended Anitram when she was humiliated by a right winger in here?

The only thing that is Bullshit is the disrespect that some people throw around in here towards others. All four of the poeple I have mentioned have had valid reasons for leaving. So why is it Bullshit? This thread, which I believe was intended to open a dialogue, is not doing that at all.

Why is it Bullshit exactly....because they were opposed to what you stand for? See, I think your trolling in this thread is Bullshit. If I am wrong so be it. I do not honestly believe you want a dialogue with any conservative on their opions thoughts or beliefs.

Why would a conservative give you the time of day, when you associate the president and those who agree with his stance on the war with one of the most horrific villans in history? Why should we take your questions sincerely, when since I have been in the forum, there has been no posts indicating a sincere desire to have a dialogue? When so very clearly you have passed a judgement already?