Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

[all_i_want]

personal disputes or not, the idea is to forgive isnt it?

all of the holy books have lots of killing and war in them, they are a side-product of any new religion.

it is quite simple really, i believe all religions preach peace and love in essence. now youre telling me bible condones war? i dont think anyone will buy that. i certainly dont.

if you believe teaching is only possible through punishment, then your logic makes sense. but IT ISNT.

 

[shart1780]

The issues of forgiveness and punishment are completely unrelated. God forgives people of their sins but he punishes us for them.

While God tells us to forgive our enemies it doesn't mean we avoid war with them. Again, killing should only be the absolute last resort, but sometimes it comes to that. Heck, God even aided his followers in war.

 

[all_i_want]

just war means fighting in self defence. what i believe is any war that is not essentially for self defence is plain murder. unfortunately, the human history is built on conquests, wars, blood and hatred. most of these wars sprang from religious beliefs or greed, to have more land, more gold, more weapons...

define your 'just' war. crusades, they werent just war, they were murder, allegedly in gods name. suicide bombings are not just war, they are murder. invading other countries to satisfy your country's economic needs and fulfill your damned political agenda is not just war, it is murder.

 

[coemgen]

Shart, I agree with you on some stuff. The Bible says there's a time for war, and a time for peace." Nobody who's read the Bible would argue that.

And Bono may be a rock star, but he's VERY well read with the Bible. You'd be surprised how much knowledge he has as a Christian.

 

[shart1780]

I agree. But I believe a just war is defending others as well as self defense.

Bono is very well-read with the Bible, but then again there are millions of others who are and I also disagree with them.

 

[deep]

God even aided his followers in war.

Are you sure?

Just because it suits the author to write it, does not make it so.

Who dosen't claim this?

 

[nbcrusader]

interesting logic

are your other conclusions
based on this same style of thinking?

Have you ever seen a parent discipline a child?

Is it done out of hatred? Occasionally by humans.

But discipline is usually done in love. The worst thing a parent could do for a child is to not care about what they do.

I don’t know if this is just a “conservative” thing, but Scripture calls believers children of God and defines the relationship as one between a Father and child. We see God having authority over us and yes, we do get disciplined.

 

[all_i_want]

it might be a bit strange to quote law in a religious discussion, but self-defence, in its legal definition, can be initiated on behalf of someone who is unable to protect themselves. so basicly, self defence and fighting in order to protect others under imminent danger could be classified under your 'just war' terminology.

 

[nbcrusader]

and the idea of 'god of punishment' is plain ridiculous.

What are you using to define God?

 

[nbcrusader]

Just because it suits the author to write it, does not make it so.

What are you referring to here?

 

[Teta040]

Shart, the problem is these people confuse the NT Jesus with the angry OT God the Father. Who was more loving anf forgiving than many remember. I cannot forget that passage in Hosea where God says to that prophet that He could not destroy the sinning people of Edom, His love was too strong...even though the prophet wanted him to. Darn, my OT is rusty these days. It's toward the backof that Book though. You'll know the verse when you see it. )They claim to speak in Jesus' name but it's really the old vengeful Jehovah they talk of. A common mistake.

And who are you to judge Bono doesn't know his Bible? Pretty arrogant statment, he and his dad used to argue circles around it when he was a teenager. And that was long before 1981. He impressed alot of religious leaders in 2002, so I wouldn't judge.

I found Bush backing down from the UN amendment thing to be the best news in some time. He actually backed down on something. He claimed victory and worded it carefully, but it was still a defeat. WOuld that we followed that strategy in Iraq before it's too late...the insurgents know they have time on their side. They can wait. All they have to do is pinprick us for years. They know.

 

[deep]

Have you ever seen a parent discipline a child?

Is it done out of hatred? Occasionally by humans.

But discipline is usually done in love. The worst thing a parent could do for a child is to not care about what they do.

I don’t know if this is just a “conservative” thing, but Scripture calls believers children of God and defines the relationship as one between a Father and child. We see God having authority over us and yes, we do get disciplined.

I understand this is how you see things

An authoritarian figure.

Many conservatives do also. I believe they want to follow. It is apparent in how they line up behind the Party politics. It is very effective.

And if one lines up this way they are arguing for/ and with the authority of God.

Very comforting and persuasive for them.

 

[all_i_want]

What are you using to define God?

i dont really want to get into my definition cause it will completely derail the thread, since i already have serious disagreements with the 'god' definitions of the major religions.

what i dont believe is that the god is out there waiting to punish people, send them to hell. whatever we do, we do it to ourselves. god does not send lightining rods from above.

if you see god as a justicar, a judge of our actions and protector of the good people on the planet, whoever they are, you are bound to be disappointed.

i believe god created this world for us, and it is now upto us to decide what to do with it. our actions shape our future, not divine interventions or holy punishments.

now, this creates certain concerns about morality, since religion has come to be all tangled up with moral issues, but just because a person does not follow a holy book doesnt mean they cant behave morally.

i could talk keep talking about this on and on but i dont want to derail the thread completely.

 

[nbcrusader]

No. It is not a matter of politics or comfort.

It is what I call a High View of God.

Holy
Sovereign
Immutable

All spelled out in Scripture.

Not a god I can keep in my pocket and call on when I get in trouble. Or one that I can use as the "big hammer" in discussions.

I fully understand why people reject the authority of God. Submission to anything runs contrary to our human desires.

 

[deep]

What are you referring to here?

all the scriptures claiming God on one side




If an unbias third party were observing current events would they conclude that the Almighty was on BinLaden’s side?


The odds that they could pull off a complicated operation like 9-11 and have both buildings collapse are incredible.

Then include BinLaden making about 30? recordings and releasing them to the pubic for 4 years without being captured or killed by the greatest super power of all time with unlimited resources.

Well, the odd makers would have had this off the charts.

This makes the David and Goliath story pale by comparison.

 

[all_i_want]

also, since most of you apparently like to see god as a parent figure, one thing about parenting, ive been told, is the unconditional love the parents have for their children. sending them to hell doesnt fit in the description of unconditional love.

i wouldnt lean on the kind of parent the holy books like to talk about

 

[coemgen]

Hell isn't necessarily punishment if you think about it. Hell is really the absense of God. If people chose to ignore or God 's authority, power and sacrifice through Christ, he's going respect their wishes because he respects free will, and let them spend eternity without him.

 

[coemgen]

To respond to you allIwant – God already did his part of expressing love (ie the Bible and the act of sending his son to die in our place for our sins so that we may spend eternity with him by chosing to accept his sacrifice and love, not by what we do). He's already done more than enough to show us his love, all we have to do is accept it. Should we chose not to, he loves us enough to let us make our own decisions. I guess you could actually say, in a way, hell is something we chose.

 

[all_i_want]

oh, that means everyone who chose the wrong religion is going to hell.. comforting.

do you really believe god is this power obsessed guy who likes to exert authority over his subjects, asks them to pray to him occasionally and if they dont, he leaves them?

that nicely fits the status quo of the organized religions, but i think it is simply something made up to make the people obey the rules of these particular religions.

 

[all_i_want]

To respond to you allIwant – God already did his part of expressing love (ie the Bible and the act of sending his son to die in our place for our sins so that we may spend eternity with him by chosing to accept his sacrifice and love, not by what we do). He's already done more than enough to show us his love, all we have to do is accept it. Should we chose not to, he loves us enough to let us make our own decisions. I guess you could actually say, in a way, hell is something we chose.

so what does my 'acceptance' entitle me to do? what is it that god wants from his subjects?

 

[Liesje]

Because conservatives are not adhering to the "inherit" word of god.... yet they act self-righteously. Just watch bible TV for 3 minutes.

Oh please!!! Are you honestly constructing your concept of "conservativism" based on those nutcases on TV?!?!? You've GOT to be kidding me. Do you believe everything you see on TV? I'm a conservative Christian, pretty centrist but will lean right on certain issues, and I will in no way shape or form let myself of my beliefs and values be associated with those TV wackos. That's like saying I know what a "man" is based on 3 minutes of Stripperella on SpikeTV

I care about social justice, unemployment, education, social security, global warming, legislation that discriminates based on sexual preference, etc, etc...I have no, do not, and will never give one flipping shit about some sobbing fat woman with fake eyelashes giving some dramatic testimonial and asking me for all my money. Absurd.

And what exactly do you mean by "inherit" word of God?

 

[financeguy]

And what the heck? Jesus is against war? I'm sorry but that's simply not true. Jesus is a god of love which also means he's a god of punishment. If you think Jesus didn't condone war I suggest you read through the Bible again.

Of course he's against unrighteous war, but that's a completely other discussion.

Shart1780's dictionary

Love = punishment

????

 

[Liesje]

also, since most of you apparently like to see god as a parent figure, one thing about parenting, ive been told, is the unconditional love the parents have for their children. sending them to hell doesnt fit in the description of unconditional love.

It's nice to think of God as a parent figure, but in the end, we can't define God based on human-constructed social roles like "father". God is the Trinity - something we simply don't have the capacity to understand.

 

[coemgen]

Yes, Christianity is the only way. That sounds close minded to people, I know. But think about it – if Christ (who was fully God and fully man) died the ultimate death in our place because the "wages of sin is death" and "all have fallen short of the glory of God" then why would God accept you chosing another way? Truth is absolute here, not relative. It's not in fashion. We can't follow the latest religion trend here.

God wants us to love him back. He wants a relationship with us. He wants to bless us. He wants us to put him first, and accept him of Lord of our lives. He wants us to worship him. We were created for all this. People who don't have this relationship with him often feel empty. It's because they "worship" other things instead of God, money, sex, material things, power, etc.

To accept his love and his sacrifice, all you have to do is pray to him and say "God, I know that I have sinned against you or gone against your ways and I'm sorry. I know your son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross for me so that I may have the opportunity to be forgiven for my sins and spend eternity with you. Thank you for this sacrifice, this gift. I now accept Christ as my lord and savior and will walk according to his ways. Amen."

God also wants you to experience his love. All you have to do is say 'yes' in your heart.

 

[nbcrusader]

Shart1780's dictionary

Love = punishment

????

Can discipline (punsihment) be done in love? Out of love?


I would suggest that failing to discipline someone is failing to show love.

 

[all_i_want]

It's nice to think of God as a parent figure, but in the end, we can't define God based on human-constructed social roles like "father". God is the Trinity - something we simply don't have the capacity to understand.

i agree with the first part

im not a big fan of religious imagery, so i wont touch the whole trinity issue.

 

[edgeboy]

AMEN.(coemgen)

 

[financeguy]

Sorry I must be in the wrong place.

I thought this forum was called "Free Your Mind".

I appear to have stumbled on a Christian "discussion" forum inadvertently

Apologies my mistake

 

[coemgen]

The trinity isn't religious imagery, it's the nature of God.

 

[financeguy]

The trinity isn't religious imagery, it's the nature of God.

According to you. You must be aware that there are U2 fans who are not Christians? E.G. Muslim fans, atheists, etc.

Surely it's a but presumptious to try and use this forum as a device to proselytise or convert people?