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Old 03-23-2007, 11:57 AM   #1
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Why Do Straights Hate Gays?

This is an editorial/opinion from the LA Times on Tuesday, March 20, 2007.


Why do straights hate gays?

An 72-year-old gay activist isn't hopeful about the future.
By Larry Kramer, LARRY KRAMER is the founder of the protest group ACT UP and the author of "The Tragedy of Today's Gays."

March 20, 2007


DEAR STRAIGHT PEOPLE,

Why do you hate gay people so much?

Gays are hated. Prove me wrong. Your top general just called us immoral. Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, is in charge of an estimated 65,000 gay and lesbian troops, some fighting for our country in Iraq. A right-wing political commentator, Ann Coulter, gets away with calling a straight presidential candidate a faggot. Even Garrison Keillor, of all people, is making really tacky jokes about gay parents in his column. This, I guess, does not qualify as hate except that it is so distasteful and dumb, often a first step on the way to hate. Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama tried to duck the questions that Pace's bigotry raised, confirming what gay people know: that there is not one candidate running for public office anywhere who dares to come right out, unequivocally, and say decent, supportive things about us.

Gays should not vote for any of them. There is not a candidate or major public figure who would not sell gays down the river. We have seen this time after time, even from supposedly progressive politicians such as President Clinton with his "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military and his support of the hideous Defense of Marriage Act. Of course, it's possible that being shunned by gays will make politicians more popular, but at least we will have our self-respect. To vote for them is to collude with them in their utter disdain for us.

Don't any of you wonder why heterosexuals treat gays so brutally year after year after year, as your people take away our manhood, our womanhood, our personhood? Why, even as we die you don't leave us alone. What we can leave our surviving lovers is taxed far more punitively than what you leave your (legal) surviving spouses. Why do you do this? My lover will be unable to afford to live in the house we have made for each other over our lifetime together. This does not happen to you. Taxation without representation is what led to the Revolutionary War. Gay people have paid all the taxes you have. But you have equality, and we don't.

And there's no sign that this situation will change anytime soon. President Bush will leave a legacy of hate for us that will take many decades to cleanse. He has packed virtually every court and every civil service position in the land with people who don't like us. So, even with the most tolerant of new presidents, gays will be unable to break free from this yoke of hate. Courts rule against gays with hateful regularity. And of course the Supreme Court is not going to give us our equality, and in the end, it is from the Supreme Court that such equality must come. If all of this is not hate, I do not know what hate is.

Our feeble gay movement confines most of its demands to marriage. But political candidates are not talking about — and we are not demanding that they talk about — equality. My lover and I don't want to get married just yet, but we sure want to be equal.

You must know that gays get beaten up all the time, all over the world. If someone beats you up because of who you are — your race or ethnic origin — that is considered a hate crime. But in most states, gays are not included in hate crime measures, and Congress has refused to include us in a federal act.

Homosexuality is a punishable crime in a zillion countries, as is any activism on behalf of it. Punishable means prison. Punishable means death. The U.S. government refused our requests that it protest after gay teenagers were hanged in Iran, but it protests many other foreign cruelties. Who cares if a faggot dies? Parts of the Episcopal Church in the U.S. are joining with the Nigerian archbishop, who believes gays should be put in prison. Episcopalians! Whoever thought we'd have to worry about Episcopalians?

Well, whoever thought we'd have to worry about Florida? A young gay man was just killed in Florida because of his sexual orientation. I get reports of gays slain in our country every week. Few of them make news. Fewer are prosecuted. Do you consider it acceptable that 20,000 Christian youths make an annual pilgrimage to San Francisco to pray for gay souls? This is not free speech. This is another version of hate. It is all one world of gay-hate. It always was.

Gays do not realize that the more we become visible, the more we come out of the closet, the more we are hated. Don't those of you straights who claim not to hate us have a responsibility to denounce the hate? Why is it socially acceptable to joke about "girlie men" or to discriminate against us legally with "constitutional" amendments banning gay marriage? Because we cannot marry, we can pass on only a fraction of our estates, we do not have equal parenting rights and we cannot live with a foreigner we love who does not have government permission to stay in this country. These are the equal protections that the Bill of Rights proclaims for all?

Why do you hate us so much that you will not permit us to legally love? I am almost 72, and I have been hated all my life, and I don't see much change coming.

I think your hate is evil.

What do we do to you that is so awful? Why do you feel compelled to come after us with such frightful energy? Does this somehow make you feel safer and legitimate? What possible harm comes to you if we marry, or are taxed just like you, or are protected from assault by laws that say it is morally wrong to assault people out of hatred? The reasons always offered are religious ones, but certainly they are not based on the love all religions proclaim.

And even if your objections to gays are religious, why do you have to legislate them so hatefully? Make no mistake: Forbidding gay people to love or marry is based on hate, pure and simple.

You may say you don't hate us, but the people you vote for do, so what's the difference? Our own country's democratic process declares us to be unequal. Which means, in a democracy, that our enemy is you. You treat us like crumbs. You hate us. And sadly, we let you.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:08 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doozer61
Because we cannot marry, we can pass on only a fraction of our estates, we do not have equal parenting rights and we cannot live with a foreigner we love who does not have government permission to stay in this country. These are the equal protections that the Bill of Rights proclaims for all?
After what happened to my friend this week this particular inequality really hits home.

http://forum.interference.com/journa...m%20Mali;%20it's%20personal%20this%20time
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:18 PM   #3
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Here's one straight guy that loves gay people.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:21 PM   #4
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I don't mind the gays, I find plenty of heteros to be much more grating.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:28 PM   #5
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I don't hate gays either.

I do hate generalized comments though.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:28 PM   #6
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I'm straight and I love my gays
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:31 PM   #7
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Tony Dungy dosent like gay people (or I am sorry does not support them)

Quote:
Speaking out
Dungy supports proposed gay-marriage ban in speech
Posted: Thursday March 22, 2007 6:46PM; Updated: Thursday March 22, 2007 6:56PM

Tony Dungy publicly stated his beliefs against gay marriages, while accepting a "Friend of Family" award on Tuesday.
AP


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Tony Dungy is a deeply religious man who puts his faith first in his life, even above family and football. So his support of a proposed gay-marriage ban likely surprised few.

What was surprising is the Indianapolis Colts' quiet coach shared his position publicly, sparking discussion about the impact of the Super Bowl winner's comments.

Dungy caused a stir Tuesday when he accepted the "Friend of Family" award from the conservative Indiana Family Institute.

The coach told the audience he supported the group's efforts to amend the Indiana constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman.

"I appreciate the stance they're taking, and I embrace that stance," Dungy told the crowd of about 700 people.

Dungy said his comments should not be considered gay bashing.

"We're not trying to downgrade anyone else. But we're trying to promote the family -- family values the Lord's way," Dungy said.

Colts president Bill Polian was at NFL meetings in Phoenix on Thursday and was unavailable for comment.

"Coach Dungy's feelings on the importance of marriage and family are well known to the overwhelming majority of American sports fans," said Myra Borshoff Cook, a spokeswoman for Colts owner Jim Irsay. "He, of course, is free to speak to any group he wishes. The club does not take positions in political issues in which it is not directly involved."

Supporters of the proposed ban hailed the endorsement.

"That was sort of a double for us," said Curt Smith, president of the institute, which is associated with but independent of James Dobson's "Focus on the Family" group.

Smith said he was unaware Dungy, who received the award because of his pro-family ethic, not for his views on public policy, would address the issue.

The resolution's sponsor, Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Monticello, said Dungy's endorsement made the proposal more credible.

"I certainly appreciate him being able to step forward and speak out strongly in his beliefs," Hershman said. "I don't think that anybody should criticize him for exercising his First Amendment right to speak as a private citizen in support of some deeply held beliefs."

Some in the gay community disagreed.

Bil Browning, who runs bilerico.com, a blog that focuses on gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues, wrote: "When the head coach publicly states that part of the Colts fan base should be second-class citizens, you can't expect those same fans to support the team."

Dan Funk, executive director of the Interfaith Coalition on Non-Discrimination, a network of 21 congregations, invited Dungy to meet with members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender communities.

"All types of families from across Indiana are Colts fans," he said. "We would like coach Dungy to meet with our families so he can better understand the negative impact (the resolution) will have on countless Hoosier families."

Dungy is not the first public figure to draw fire for anti-gay comments.

Former NBA star Tim Hardaway apologized twice after responding to a question about his reaction to a gay teammate by saying "I hate gay people." Actor Isaiah Washington, of the hit television show "Grey's Anatomy," sought counseling after using a gay slur when he referred to another cast member. Author-columnist Ann Coulter was chastised for repeating the slur when referring to Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards during a speech to a conservative group.

The NFL sought to distance itself from the matter.

"Coach Dungy is speaking for himself and expressing his views, which he is fully entitled to do," league officials said in a statement. "No doubt there are people in our league that have a different view. We respect the right of employees to have and express their views and don't regulate the political or religious views of team or league employees."

David Morton, principal of the Indianapolis-based sports marketing group Sunrise Sports Group, doesn't believe Dungy will suffer any lasting backlash from his comments.

"Tony's position on this or any other political issue should be as one person's opinion and one person's opinion only," Morton said. "It's not as Tony Dungy, head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. It's not the Indianapolis Colts, because I doubt if he asked Bill Polian or (Colts owner) Jim Irsay or anyone else what they thought.

"He's never tried to take advantage of his position on the pulpit," Morton said. "He spoke from the heart, and honestly, and I don't think you can ask anyone to do anything else."

Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:33 PM   #8
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Tony Dungy is a deeply religious man who puts his faith first in his life, even above family and football.
Sounds like the title to a guy ready to disown a family member.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:36 PM   #9
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Sounds like the title to a guy ready to disown a family member.
Not necessarily. I put my faith first and the result is a better relationship with my family. When I don't put it first, it suffers.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:38 PM   #10
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can we say that a refusal to grant equal rights to gay relationships is tantamount to hating gay people, even if we don't hate individual gay people?

kind of like a Jim Crowe-esque, Lester might be one of the good ones and he works hard, but i don't want him eating at the same lunch counter as me.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:40 PM   #11
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Irvine I like the new Avatar. LOL
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:44 PM   #12
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Irvine I like the new Avatar. LOL


the poor thing. i'd feel bad for her if i didn't think her kiddies are suffering so much.

brit's mom should be jailed.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:59 PM   #13
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Originally posted by Irvine511
can we say that a refusal to grant equal rights to gay relationships is tantamount to hating gay people, even if we don't hate individual gay people?

kind of like a Jim Crowe-esque, Lester might be one of the good ones and he works hard, but i don't want him eating at the same lunch counter as me.
Here's the thing with that though, most, I would think, who oppose gay marriage do so primarily because they don't feel homosexuality is moral. Those in support of gay marraige say it's not a moral decision, it's how gay people are born so it's just the way it is. If both sides had that standpoint, then you could liken it more to the struggle blacks face . . . to those who oppose gay marriage. Since those who oppose it consider it a moral issue, the whole black comparison doesn't work with them. . . when relating to them. To them, you're logic appears to be saying it's a moral decision to be black. Therefore, if people are basing their views on what they feel is a moral decision is it still hate, even if they don't hate an individual?

(I'm asking this purely from a philisophical perspective, not anything political)
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Old 03-23-2007, 01:13 PM   #14
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Here's the thing with that though, most, I would think, who oppose gay marriage do so primarily because they don't feel homosexuality is moral. Those in support of gay marraige say it's not a moral decision, it's how gay people are born so it's just the way it is. If both sides had that standpoint, then you could liken it more to the struggle blacks face . . . to those who oppose gay marriage. Since those who oppose it consider it a moral issue, the whole black comparison doesn't work with them. . . when relating to them. To them, you're logic appears to be saying it's a moral decision to be black. Therefore, if people are basing their views on what they feel is a moral decision is it still hate, even if they don't hate an individual?

(I'm asking this purley from a philisophical perspective, not anything political)

but where does the moral distinction come from? how is one form of love, always and everywhere, less moral than another?

i think that's the distinction. by saying that one group of people are qualified to certain rights, respect, and privileges and another group aren't, you're saying that, by definition, heterosexuality is at all times and all places better than homosexuality. so you could have the most dysfunctional 55-hour Britney Spears marriage and it would always, always be better than two lesbians who have been together for 35 years and adopted 3 kids. in order to justify this viewpoint, it seems that hate -- and what else do we call it? -- is necessary.

it's analgous to juding people by the color of their skin and not the content of their character. you're saying that the opposite-sexed structure of a relationship is always more moral (just like white skin might always be "better") than a same-sexed structre of another relationship. the individuals in the relationship doesn't matter, the functioning of the relationship doesn't matter, the commitmen, love, respect, intimacy, whatever, don't matter. what matters first and foremost is the differing anatomical structure of the two partners involved in whatever relationship.
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Old 03-23-2007, 01:16 PM   #15
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Originally posted by Irvine511
can we say that a refusal to grant equal rights to gay relationships is tantamount to hating gay people, even if we don't hate individual gay people?
Your very question presents a whole series of terms that need defining: "equal rights", "gay relationships" (as opposed to what?), "hate"...etc. I think we need to define what we're talking about before we can say that anyone who disagrees with you hates you.

And anyway, isn't living in that kind of black and white world sort of like saying, "If you're not for us, you're against us"?
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