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Old 11-10-2004, 12:10 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I'm not going to bash democrats, but their party needs reformation and definition. They used to appeal to the working class, instead of Hollywood. Now they appeal to the rebellious crowd, which is not a good thing. Campaigning for issues like gay marriage, stem cell research, and abortion are not going to get you elected. Trying to appeal to gays and feminists is killing their party's moral standards. Dropping those issues altogether and focusing on what can benefit the working class - black and white - is how they could get my vote.
Working class solidarity involves defending ALL working class people, whether they're male or female, gay or straight, black or white. You can't claim to be representing working class people but exclude working class gay people or working class feminists.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:56 PM   #62
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Working class solidarity involves defending ALL working class people, whether they're male or female, gay or straight, black or white. You can't claim to be representing working class people but exclude working class gay people or working class feminists.
I don't have a problem with the gays and feminists in the workforce, but I disapprove of the other issues they fight for.
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Old 11-10-2004, 06:40 PM   #63
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I think the real reason Kerry lost is because he didn't show mainstream America how he could unite the country. Instead, the Kerry campaign I saw was loaded with Bush-bashing and bordered by radicals like Michael Moore, who would've badmouthed the president even if we found bin Laden.

My message is that we should work together instead of bash the president, because it doesn't do any good. People are tired of hearing accusations, so am I. You don't have to be in power to be patriotic and support your leaders, even if they have a different view.
I don't think Kerry lost the election just b/c of this but I believe it contributed to his loss. However, I agree with the basic sentiment.
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Old 11-10-2004, 06:42 PM   #64
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And here I thought that it was "all about the hair"
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:53 PM   #65
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The Architects Of Defeat

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Twelve days before the election, James Carville stood in a Beverly Hills living room surrounded by two generations of Hollywood stars. After being introduced by Sen. John Kerry’s daughter, Alexandra, he told the room — confidently, almost cockily — that the election was in the bag.

“If we can’t win this damn election,” the advisor to the Kerry campaign said, “with a Democratic Party more unified than ever before, with us having raised as much money as the Republicans, with 55% of the country believing we’re heading in the wrong direction, with our candidate having won all three debates, and with our side being more passionate about the outcome than theirs — if we can’t win this one, then we can’t win shit! And we need to completely rethink the Democratic Party.”
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Despite a lot of talk about “moral values,” exit polls proved that Iraq and the war on terror together were the issues uppermost in people’s minds. And therefore as Thorne and Vallely, among others, kept arguing, if the president continued to hold a double-digit advantage on his leadership on the war on terror, he would win. But those in charge of the Kerry campaign ignored this giant, blood-red elephant standing in the middle of the room and allowed themselves to be mesmerized by polling and focus group data that convinced them the economy was the way to go.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:18 PM   #66
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It doesn't surprise me that the big issue this time was national security. This was *the* post-9/11 election, what with nerves still on edge after the brutal attacks, and the usual big cheese topic, the economy, took a back seat this time. The general economic situation wasn't bad enough to hurt the incumbent. The question is, how long will the economy take a back seat, particularly if things go really sour in that department in the next four years? What if the situation really sucks in four years? It's not like the pocketbook issue is dead, it's more like it's out to lunch.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:52 PM   #67
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i think post 9-11 the economy will always take a back seat to nat security issues.

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Old 11-12-2004, 09:03 PM   #68
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Among other stupid, ludicrous, outrageous lies, in one of the prez debates (#2), Kerry stated that =because= the Bush Administration did not give enough trillions of dollars to transportation, tunnels, bridges, etc, (LIE!) that during the Republican National Convention in Manhattan (on half of one block) that the New York City subway sytem had to close down!? (INSANE LIE). The NYC subway system did not even close down for September 11th nor would it for Armageddon. When Kerry said that non-sense, about 29 of the 30 people in the room I was in watching the debate said: "He's crazy or a liar or both; in any event, he'll lose". Take the "L" train (for Loser)!
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Old 11-13-2004, 06:08 AM   #69
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You're probably right, diamond. It's impossible for something as drastic as 9/11 to not not alter the political landscape for good. We have a new issue in American politics. However, I don't rule out the Democrats learning to work with this. GWB is the "war on terror" president. This may help Giuliani in 2008 should he decide to run. I wouldn't be too terribly upset with Giuliani as President as he is a moderate.
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Old 11-13-2004, 07:36 AM   #70
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thx verte,
in a nutshell if it's not safe to spend your money,
who cares about having money anyway?
also when the dem's claim everything the republicans say re terror is fear manipulation, most americans see that as veiled manipulation from the dems.

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Old 11-13-2004, 07:55 AM   #71
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diamond, I don't think the terror alerts are fear political ploys or whatever either. Fear of terror is real, especially when you've got bin Laden still making videos vowing to "bankrupt" America and this sort of thing. I think the challenge to the Democrats is learning to work with this new issue, and not harping on the ideas of an innocent past. I anticipate having disagreements with some of my fellow liberals over this. Alot of it depends on who gets the chairmanship of the DNC, and then, as always, some things will be circumstantial and will depend on external factors.
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Old 11-13-2004, 10:22 AM   #72
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verte,
i like how u think
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Old 11-13-2004, 10:21 PM   #73
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The only positive thing about Dubya getting another four years is that I don't have to pretend to love Kerry anymore.
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Old 11-13-2004, 11:59 PM   #74
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Howard Dean 2008, if your going to loose then loose for something you like.
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Old 11-14-2004, 12:27 AM   #75
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RUDY even attracks Dems!

Quote:
Originally posted by Verte76
....GWB is the "war on terror" president. This may help Giuliani in 2008 should he decide to run. I wouldn't be too terribly upset with Giuliani as President as he is a moderate.
Glad to read your sensible and fair-minded thoughts and words, Verte. In fact, Repuiblican Rudy Giuliani won as N.Y.C. Mayor both times with large support and endorsements from Democrats, such as former Dem Mayor Ed Koch!


See Rudy pix, etc.: www.STONEWALLvets.org/MayorRudy.htm


U-2 Newz: U-2 on "Saturday Night Live" in NYC next Sat., Nov. 20.
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