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Old 09-19-2002, 08:44 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo

From Salome:

"I'm sick of this stuff even it it were true (and I would say it isn't) then it adds nothing to the rest of your post + I don't see what the political inclination of mods has anything to do with the threads and posts that are in fym not that many threads are closed and when mods do close threads it usually is because of the way people act instead of the (political) content of the thread at hand it gets nearly impossible to moderate this forum in any way when you are (for no particular reason) being labelled as a biased leftie every day everyone going out of his way blaming the mods for the state FYM is in will be reported to the admins."

Ahahaha...your post is a laughable contradiction. First you claim that the closing of threads and silencing of opinions is not biased, then you say that you will report criticisms of your bias to the admins (Elvis is also ultra-liberal) if it continues. If this isn't the most obvious case of repression of free-speech and one side of the political spectrum, I don't know what is. Also, you guys are partly reponsible for the way FYM is today. All of the moderators of this forum are liberals. Most of your are very, very far to the left (i.e. Salome, Anthony, paxetaurora and Lilly) and you all actively contribute to political threads so don't pretend like you're are objective watchers who don't have a role in this. You should ask yourself how it came to be this way? There are several conservatives on this board who are willing to balance this out. Also, my posts have been "censored" several times. This is disgraceful.

listen up. you have no right to come in here accusing us of what we do and do not close and question our motives around it. when a thread is going well be it "liberal" or "conservative" it is going well and will be left alone. when threads are reduced to personal bickering, then there is no point in keeping the thread alive. ATTACK THE ISSUE, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL. it's something that we have said many times, but still, people do not get it.

when were your threads "censored." what was the topic?

and next time you think about making sweeping generalizations about the mods, i would advise you not to, as you clearly don't know any of us.

if you have more issues with this, i urge you to pm us, this will not be spoken about any more in the thread.

thank you,

lilly.
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Old 09-19-2002, 09:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly



ATTACK THE ISSUE, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL. it's something that we have said many times, but still, people do not get it.


Well said!
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Old 09-19-2002, 09:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly


ATTACK THE ISSUE, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL
This should be the new FYM slogan.
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Old 09-19-2002, 09:43 PM   #49
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while we mods always appreciate support, i said no more discussion on it in here, and i meant it.

thank you.

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Old 09-19-2002, 10:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
This will be a post where I claim ignorance again Arun.

Can anyone clear something up for me with hard evidence please?

I know the press is reporting that Iraq is allowing inspectors back in. I am also hearing on the radio news that they are "limiting" inspections to military facilities only. If this is true is this in violation of the UN Reslolutions?

Arun, I agree this situation has much at stake for the world. The UN is in jeopardy of losing a lot of respect in this instance. I think that is bad as well.

As for the president seeking aproval of our congress....I believe he must do this even if the UN Approves action. Sounds like he is making sure all is in line. As for attacking Iraq without UN approval, he MUST make his case to the US. Notice his approval went up when he went to the UN. I honestly believe the US

Citizenship believes we need UN approval. I may be wrong though.


All Im saying is...I'd liek to avoid a war of I can, I dont' liek to hear teh sound of war drums beating before they need to be sounded.


If he kicks the inspectors out....then go to the Un..then go to congress.


NO matter hwat happens the most inportant thing is that we get support from teh region ie saudi and egypt. and that can only be accomplished through the UN.


Also...I think its' irresponsible to go to congress right now.


JIm davis of florida said today that he feels that Congress and the American people have been left out of the loop and that the administration needs to present a full case to the american people beofre anything more.


The gulf of tonking was an exageratted incident that led us into one of the bloodiest wars ever...I'd rather force the president to make a full case the the US public rather than repeat the mistake that occured with Tonkin. American lives are on the line if we go to war with iraq and I feel that bush needs to make a stronger case right now to jusify the risk


If the administration gives me hard evidence....I say go in and take saddam out.
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:08 PM   #51
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listen up. you have no right to come in here accusing us of what we do and do not close and question our motives around it.

I have every right to do so until you choose to cancel my account. Why are you so afraid of airing this issue in this public forum? Why ask me to use PM? Are you afraid that this is a legitimate issue. The fact that you believe that you are above criticism is very telling indeed. Just as it's not good for a government to have only one political point of view, it's unhealthy for a forum to be controlled by moderators of only one political persuasion. I think to most conservatives on here that it's an obvious fact that the moderators are all liberals.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE MY ASSERTION THAT YOU ALL SWING TO THE LEFT, THEN PLEASE ASK ME TO MAKE A WHOLE POST ABOUT IT AND I WILL LITERALLY GO BACK AND DOCUMENT A TON OF EVIDENCE TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS.

Ok, getting back to my issue here and lower case letters, I have been censored when I've posted something fairly controversial concerning the environment and a while ago when I posted about Afghanistan. I don't remember the exact details of the post because I simply don't keep records, but I'm sure it's happened several times. I'll post a message, see the post come up at the end of the thread and come back 1-2 hours later and see that it's gone. That's what happens. I'd find it hard to believe that I alone share this experience. Also, what you consider a good stopping point for a thread is open to all sorts of bias and political manipulation. If someone on this forum posts a right-wing msg (let's say someone posted pictures of war planes *ahem*), I think you're much more like to think of it as extremist than when someone says that Bush is no difference than Hussein or some other ultra-left msg, which I personally find very offensive. I have put a lot of time into making this thread factually relevant, so please don't accuse me of simply attacking the individual (in fact, someone even mentioned that I used the fact to make a good arguement in this thread).

I'm tired of the threats coming from mods and members of this forum. If you believe that you have absolute power because you put extra time into this and that entitles you to do whatever you want, then please allow someone else (me, Z-edge, diamond, achtung bubba, etc) the opportunity to step in or just simply state OPENLY that you don't care about fairness in exercising the rules.

It has become painfully clear to me that this forum cares nothing about issues of fairness and balance. Ample evidence comes from threatening PMs in my box that state things like:
"you pay nothing, therefore you are entitled to nothing. They do their job, you put up and shut up, because youre here by their good graces, nothing else. If they feel the need to close down a thread, they will do so, whether you like it or not."

I also believe that the moderators ignore instances when liberals make outright generalizations and insults about conservatives when the opposite would cause quite a scene. I can document evidence of this too.

This forum, in my opinion, would be best served by a balance of viewpoints in its administration. Further, like someone holding a political position in the government, they should never answer questions of their objectivity with threats and suppression, but with a valid arguement. Arguing that your extra effort justifies any means of administering the rules which best pleases you is well...totalitarian in a way.


OzAurora:

I can see your point about how "liberal" can be taken two ways as well. It's a valid point. However, Americans don't often focus on foreign political groups (i.e. Australia) to make such a comparison between foreign ultra-liberals (i.e. radical socialists) and domestic liberals. I'd be surprised if many right-wingers are even aware of militant socialists or the far-left policies of countries like Sweden to make such a comparison. Also, our country does not often make public criticisms of foreign left-wing groups in other countries. Several Europeans governments and activists DO focus on political groups in America and we hear of criticism from Europeans of our government (and especially Republicans) nearly every day, which is why I think it's more important that Europeans distinguish between their own right-wing political groups and ours.

Also, you asked why you should bother to look for hard evidence. Why bother to come to this forum and engage in the first place, right?
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:31 PM   #52
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What Tyler said.

Also, I'd like it if yanks and others didn't make assumptions about our country, its people or its politics without first checking it out - what garibaldo said about us 'having just about all liberal politicians' is utter crap.
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Old 09-20-2002, 12:11 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly
while we mods always appreciate support, i said no more discussion on it in here, and i meant it.

thank you.

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Sure Lilly, it won't happen again.
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Old 09-20-2002, 10:27 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
listen up. you have no right to come in here accusing us of what we do and do not close and question our motives around it.

I have every right to do so until you choose to cancel my account. Why are you so afraid of airing this issue in this public forum? Why ask me to use PM? Are you afraid that this is a legitimate issue. The fact that you believe that you are above criticism is very telling indeed. Just as it's not good for a government to have only one political point of view, it's unhealthy for a forum to be controlled by moderators of only one political persuasion. I think to most conservatives on here that it's an obvious fact that the moderators are all liberals.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE MY ASSERTION THAT YOU ALL SWING TO THE LEFT, THEN PLEASE ASK ME TO MAKE A WHOLE POST ABOUT IT AND I WILL LITERALLY GO BACK AND DOCUMENT A TON OF EVIDENCE TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS.

Ok, getting back to my issue here and lower case letters, I have been censored when I've posted something fairly controversial concerning the environment and a while ago when I posted about Afghanistan. I don't remember the exact details of the post because I simply don't keep records, but I'm sure it's happened several times. I'll post a message, see the post come up at the end of the thread and come back 1-2 hours later and see that it's gone. That's what happens. I'd find it hard to believe that I alone share this experience. Also, what you consider a good stopping point for a thread is open to all sorts of bias and political manipulation. If someone on this forum posts a right-wing msg (let's say someone posted pictures of war planes *ahem*), I think you're much more like to think of it as extremist than when someone says that Bush is no difference than Hussein or some other ultra-left msg, which I personally find very offensive. I have put a lot of time into making this thread factually relevant, so please don't accuse me of simply attacking the individual (in fact, someone even mentioned that I used the fact to make a good arguement in this thread).

I'm tired of the threats coming from mods and members of this forum. If you believe that you have absolute power because you put extra time into this and that entitles you to do whatever you want, then please allow someone else (me, Z-edge, diamond, achtung bubba, etc) the opportunity to step in or just simply state OPENLY that you don't care about fairness in exercising the rules.

It has become painfully clear to me that this forum cares nothing about issues of fairness and balance. Ample evidence comes from threatening PMs in my box that state things like:
"you pay nothing, therefore you are entitled to nothing. They do their job, you put up and shut up, because youre here by their good graces, nothing else. If they feel the need to close down a thread, they will do so, whether you like it or not."

I also believe that the moderators ignore instances when liberals make outright generalizations and insults about conservatives when the opposite would cause quite a scene. I can document evidence of this too.

This forum, in my opinion, would be best served by a balance of viewpoints in its administration. Further, like someone holding a political position in the government, they should never answer questions of their objectivity with threats and suppression, but with a valid arguement. Arguing that your extra effort justifies any means of administering the rules which best pleases you is well...totalitarian in a way.


my purpose in asking you to contain this to a pm was so as to not disturb this thread more than it has been. if you've tried to save it thus far, you will fail if you continue to digress from the issue and attack myself, the mods, the admins, or the board itself.

this discussion will continue via PM. it will not, NOT continue in this thread.


lilly.
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Old 09-20-2002, 10:55 AM   #55
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Re: Re: Why Bush, Why???????

Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo

Let me say again how much I hate ultra-liberals. Let me count the ways.....Your baseless generalizations, thoughtless analogies and general stupidity is almost endearing....almost. whenhiphopdrovethebigcars & FizzingWhizzbees deliver no surprise once again.

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Old 09-20-2002, 11:02 AM   #56
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if this thread doesn't head back toward the issue pretty quickly, i'm going to close it.
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:13 AM   #57
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garibaldo your complaints about this forum, the moderators and the administrators of this site are not backed by fact from these posts. They are also not relevent to this thread. By all means, air them, but not in this thread. It is no secret that threads will be closed if they stray off topic too far and lose base - ie, no grounds for biased modding if this does get closed as a result. You also cannot make grand assumptions about our political affiliations and keep to fact, as I am not a liberal. Call me whatever you need, but do not make it innacurate.
We would appreciate if everyone can refrain from discussing this further. It has been stated this will be closed if it does not stay on topic.
Thankya's all.
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:21 AM   #58
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After reading this thread....


1) Yes, It's definitely a mistake to try to assume anything about anyone's political views from a bulletin board. Sometimes some of use sarcasm in ways that is not always understood. Plus, you probably will find that many here are actually closer to the middle but because we speak out on ONLY a few issues, we are mistakenly understood as far right or left.

2) I have no idea what the original topic is/was. It's about Bush obviously, but is also about liberalism/conservitsm, political parties, Iraq, Oil, among other things. Hard to nail down completely. Can anyone help me here?

3) If one does feel like they are being censored, or concerned with moderation, can one voice it publically? Where and how?



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Old 09-20-2002, 11:43 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


3) If one does feel like they are being censored, or concerned with moderation, can one voice it publically? Where and how?




i urge you to PM any one of the mods if you feel there is injustice. please bring this to our attention first. if there were a relevant thread to the way mods operate in here, then post it in there, but this is not the proper thread to do so in.

thank you for respecting this policy.

the mods.
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:53 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


I don´t think he is a sadist - he just doesn´t give a fuck, which is the same bad in his position. He doesn´t care, you know. He doesn´t care about children dying or his responsibility. He is just a criminal who thinks only about himself and his friends. His hands are full of blood, but he stays totally without any emotion towards the pain that he causes.

He doesn´t get a great pleasure from killing (if I look at his career, well.... - but I think he just pursued his career). He only gets pleasure from making money and from using his power. You know, he is an ill man. A true, one hundered percent capitalist. A mass murderer.

And you can bet that he knows what he´s doing, just like every psychopathic street killer who´s able to lie to the... what do they call it... truth detector?
Why, is there still anything to say to the issue?
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