Why are you what you are, politically?

[UberBeaver]

Still, I guess I envy the fact that Canada and the UK have a Prime Minister's Questions period. There's something satisfying about a political system that provides a defined weekly opportunity for naysayers to berate the country's leader directly. It's the kind of intellectual sparring I wish dubya could have been a part of during the Iraq War.

Talk like that'll get you landed in Gitmo, son. And Dubya has enought trouble with written scripts. An English style Q&A would probably end in Dubya drowning in his own drool.

 

[Irvine511]

not totally sure how i developed politically, but i remember first starting to pay attention in 1992. i think when it comes to choosing candidates, i'm more attracted to people who seem to genuinely think and ponder and weigh the issues. one of the reasons why i find Bush so repulsive is that he's essentially the antithesis of everything i'd look for in a leader -- he's crass and quick and lazy and anti-intellectual. of course politics isn't an intellectual excercise -- it's about getting people to do what you want -- but the demonstration of a strong intellectual grasp of both sides of an issue strongly attracts me to a candidate, on the right or the left.

as it stands now, there's no possible way i could ever vote for a Republican for president. that could change, but the party has so aligned itself with rabidly anti-intellectual forces -- the Religious Right, mostly -- and forces that have stated that they are excited about my potential social death, that it doesn't matter how liberal Giuliani might be on social issues. the new influx of religion -- which in this country is Christianity -- into politics terrifies me to a great extent, because it is anti-intellectual, concerned with emotion and sentimentalism rather than logic and reason.

on a personal level, growing up, the biggest issues for me were the environment and a general sense that some things were deeply "unfair" to certain people. i think you see it replicated in every junior high school across the world. some kids are born into a life of ease and get everything they'd ever want and use that to taunt those less fortunate, and they walk around thinking they deserve it. the phrase, "so many people born on third base go through life thinking they hit a triple" was always very relevant to me. even though i was relatively quite fortunate in this regard, i always felt a kinship with those who seemed to be tortured by "the system," as it were. those who were bullied, who were ridiculed for having the wrong clothes, who had different interests, who were fat, had glasses, etc. i guess i always knew that, deep down, i was different, and i could be abused for my difference, though at the age of 12/13 it was far less obvious. so the kinship was also an expression of self-defense.

and in politics, while i can't quite say that the Democrats actually care about the little guy, i think i can definitively say that the Republicans actually don't care about the little guy. the sense of entitlement and assumed superiority -- that gets whitewashed with, "i deserve it/that's how capitalism works/i have no responsibility to the society that has given me everything" -- has always driven me crazy, and it seems to have come to a head with our current president. has anyone, ever, been given so much and been asked so little of in return?

i suppose the overriding narrative is having grown up with a strong sense of obligation. and the Republicans seem to feel that they have no obligation to anyone but themselves.

so i'm less of a Democrat and more of an anti-Republican, with a splash of social libertarianism thrown in.

 

[maycocksean]

I grew probably more conservative, partially because of my religious upbringing--my denomination is definitely conservative, and also because most of the people I grew up around tended to be more conservative. I remember liking Ronald Reagan a lot as a kid (but then how can you not like Ronald Reagan!).

I found myself moving more and more left as I grew older. My personal distaste for the Republican party came from what I felt was a kind of latent racsim in a lot of their positions. I saw that kind of undercurrent of racism with a lot of my friends growing up and I saw that same undercurrent in the G.O.P. I also saw the Right as the home of those who want to involve the church in governement (and I've always been STRONGLY against that--it's actually a big part of the traditional theology of my church, the dangers inherent in church/state mixing so I guess that's the roots of that).

For a long time I liked to style myself as an independent, but I've come to accept that most of my views tend to lean left so I'm okay with being viewed as a liberal.

I'm pretty disillusioned with the politicians in both parties right now. It seems like there's no one left who's willing to tell the truth or make the hard choices.

I pretty much agree with everything Irvine said. . .very similar outlook there.

One of the things I admire about this forum is that there's a much higher percentage of people who are actually thinking about the issues and thus are much harder to "safely" pigeonhole. Just when I think I've "figured out" where someone is coming from in FYM they'll surprise me with a view that doesn't toe the party line. I like that and I respect it.

 

[verte76]

I'm a liberal because of an experience I had when I was a child. A teacher passed around a picture of Simon Legree beating Uncle Tom to death. That was painful. I'm still a lefty but have a mind of my own.

 

[2861U2]

I'm a liberal because of an experience I had when I was a child. A teacher passed around a picture of Simon Legree beating Uncle Tom to death. That was painful. I'm still a lefty but have a mind of my own.

That's too bad you base your entire political alignment off of that (slavery), which was hardly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.

 

[BVS]

which was hardly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.

She didn't say it was...

 

[Butterscotch]

That's too bad you base your entire political alignment off of that (slavery), which was hardly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.

If it were, the Republicans would be the 'good guys' because they were the antislavery party of Lincoln!

 

[randhail]

And Lincoln's Republican party probably would not want any part of what the Republicans have turned into.

 

[hardyharhar]

Talk like that'll get you landed in Gitmo, son. And Dubya has enought trouble with written scripts. An English style Q&A would probably end in Dubya drowning in his own drool.

 

[hardyharhar]

I remember liking Ronald Reagan a lot as a kid (but then how can you not like Ronald Reagan!).

I say start with his acting. Shouldn't take too long

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Still, I guess I envy the fact that Canada and the UK have a Prime Minister's Questions period. There's something satisfying about a political system that provides a defined weekly opportunity for naysayers to berate the country's leader directly. It's the kind of intellectual sparring I wish dubya could have been a part of during the Iraq War.

I agree - it's the same in Australia obviously. The Prime Minister gets hammered, and I mean hammered daily by either the press or opposition in parliament (or both).

It, to me, is the most obvious thing lacking in the US system. It's particularly noticeable with a President like Bush who clearly absolutely hates anything other than repetitive, scripted soundbites of fluff.

And not just with Bush, but in general, I think it would change the way Americans vote, or the kind of person they would vote for. The criteria would change.

 

[Angela Harlem]

That's too bad you base your entire political alignment off of that (slavery), which was hardly a Democrat vs. Republican issue.

It's too bad that in 3.5 odd years of reading this forum that you are unaware that verte is a very intelligent and well-read woman with views formed on adult perception. Sounds merely like verte was relaying a pivotal point for her in her conservative childhood environment. But you go on and believe what you will. It often feels better.

 

[2861U2]

It's too bad that in 3.5 odd years of reading this forum

Not quite. There was about an 18-month period where I barely ever checked out this place. Regardless, I dont post enough (or care enough) to learn everybody's life stories and entire political views.

you are unaware that verte is a very intelligent and well-read woman with views formed on adult perception.

Fine. Good for her. I'm sure she is a very knowledgable woman, and I wasn't attacking her intellect. I was only replying to her post which from solely reading it (and not knowing anything about verte) one could possibly jump to the conclusion that I did.

 

[BVS]

I dont post enough (or care enough) to learn everybody's life stories and entire political views.

Then don't make presumptions and reduce people down to one post.

Ask yourself what would Jesus do?

 

[yolland]

Great thread topic; however, at the risk of being lecturesome, I wanted to reiterate the actual question being asked--some respondents seem to be replying by simply labeling themselves or offering a list of stances, which was not the question asked:

Why are you what you are, politically?

I mean, not what is it about your political philosophy that appeals to you, rather what is it about you that draws you to a particular political view.

I grew up in the majority-black, poorest region of the poorest state in the country and my parents arrived in this country as penniless refugees, so social welfare, education, racial justice, and immigration policy are all particularly important to me. I can't say I know, though, of any one political or economic ideology that I'd consider to supply all the 'right answers' on those issues, and while I am more likely to vote for Democrats than candidates of other parties, I've never once voted a straight-party ticket, and share Irvine's pessimism about whether voting with the so-called "little guy" in mind can ever amount to much more than a lesser-of-two-evils vote in this country.

I find it interesting that several of the twentysomething-ish Americans in here mentioned the environment as one of their earliest political priorities--while I'd consider it important to my voting behavior now, I really never thought about it until late in my college years, and don't recall having the impression that it was a key issue for many voters in general until around that time. But perhaps that's more a reflection of the region of the country I grew up in than my age.

 

[2861U2]

Church and my Christian faith has been the number one thing in my life growing up. I have gone to church pretty much every week for as long as I can remember. I help out with children's programs, am part of a number of groups and ministries, and have attended over a dozen various youth camps and retreats. All of that has contributed very much to my conservative values.

For example, I strongly believe in traditional marriage of one man and one woman, I do not want God taken out of the public square, I am opposed to abortion, and I believe in working hard to get ahead and do not expect things to be simply handed to me.

I would say 9/11 solidified my political beliefs, though I was only 13 when it happened. I wanted the United States to protect itself using whatever means necessary and to go after Al-Qaeda. I believe criminals should be punished- everyone from international terrorists down to local bank robbers and I believe in firmly punishing children who fight in schools.

Many of the things that Hillary Clinton or Harry Reid or Keith Olbermann say scare the living daylights out of me, and I really dont want the likes of them being the future of the country. I feel they do not see the consequences of leaving Iraq and the gross immorality of abandoning the Iraqi people when they need us most.

Also, I have my ranking of important issues to me, and something like the environment is not near the top. I'm probably in the minority here.

So basically, my young life has so far led to my support of the Republican party and traditional, Christian, conservative values.

 

[BVS]

So basically, my young life has so far led to my support of the Republican party and traditional, Christian, conservative values.

Do you honestly equate the teachings of Jesus to the Republican Party?

Jesus taught sell your jewelery and give it to the poor, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, love your neighbor, he who's free of sin cast the first stone, etc...

Economically and socially that sounds nothing like the Republican party.

 

[2861U2]

BVS, you never disappoint. I knew you would find some problem with my post and, alas, it came not 10 minutes after I finished writing it. Truly amazing.

I will respond in the morning for I am off to bed.

 

[BVS]

BVS, you never disappoint.

That's a hard expectation to live up to, but I always try my best.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I'd think if you are a Christian you'd have a foot in both camps.

If you are a very 'strict' conservative Christian, I understand the appeal of a lot of the Republicans social conservatism. I don't agree with it obviously, but I understand it's attraction if that's where you're at. Whether that's someone railing against sex and violence in entertainment, or an anti-abortion stance etc. But I don't know how you can say you read and understand the Bible - and then slam outright everything from the left. It's like listening to only all of the 'fire and brimstone' rules and warnings in the Bible, and none of the teachings and lessons.

 

[fly so high!]

I would like to think that i have somewhat more of a liberal and democratic political stance.

But i will support anything that strives for:

Better schools and universities
Better newspapers and television
Better representation for ordinary people

 

[blueeyedgirl]

I would say 9/11 solidified my political beliefs, though I was only 13 when it happened.

Fuck, you're only 19. I would have taken from your posts that you were much, much older.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that if your ideas stay static (not neccessarily ideals though) then it's dangerous since you never have to think about issues.

 

[2861U2]

Jesus taught sell your jewelery and give it to the poor, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, love your neighbor, he who's free of sin cast the first stone, etc...

Do you propose "loving" the terrorists? Let me know how that turns out.

What you're saying here is correct, and if I was alive 2000 years ago, who knows, I may have very well been a Democrat by today's standards. However, we live in a much different world than when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus talked about standing up for what is right, even if you are standing alone. Jesus knew there was evil in the world. I think if Jesus saw the ACLU and other far-lefts doing what they are doing regarding God, He would be appalled and very dissapointed. I dont think the world we live in now is close to what Jesus wanted to leave behind for us.

I do follow the "love thy neighbor" teachings. That is why, for example, I want us to stay in Iraq to help prevent more terrorists attacks here killing my fellow Americans and I want us to stay and protect the Iraqi people. I dont think pulling out of Iraq and abandoning them would be loving thy neighbor.

Do you honestly equate the teachings of Jesus to the Republican Party?

Yes, I believe I do. If nothing else, I certainly, certainly do not equate them to the Democratic party of today.

 

[2861U2]

Fuck, you're only 19. I would have taken from your posts that you were much, much older.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[2861U2]

oops, delete post

 

[anitram]

I watched SiCKO last night. Surely the thought of Michael Moore will give some people here hives, but my post is not about him nor really about the topic of the movie.

It's about a scene involving maybe about 10 Americans who were expats, living in Paris. They were discussing differences between two countries. Like the fact that women get 6 months off when they have a baby and an option of another 6 months after that (pay notwithstanding). Like after giving birth, a woman can have a government employee come into her home twice a week for 4 hours to do her laundry, prepare meals, and watch the baby so the woman can have a break. Like the fact that daycare costs the French $1/hour per child. Like the fact that everyone, including part-time employees have 5 weeks of mandatory vacation a year. When you get married, you get an additional 7 days for your honeymoon. Like the fact that if you work past 35 hours a week, that entitles you for more vacation time. Like the fact that working people have unlimited sick days per year: if you are sick, you are sick.

They were saying, is this not family values? That we have more time with our children, that we are not stressed with debt, that the state supports child-rearing and supports mothers and fathers?

What would Jesus do indeed.

 

[BVS]

Do you propose "loving" the terrorists? Let me know how that turns out.

I'm just telling you what Jesus taught, if you want to ignore him, go ahead.

What you're saying here is correct, and if I was alive 2000 years ago, who knows, I may have very well been a Democrat by today's standards. However, we live in a much different world than when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus talked about standing up for what is right, even if you are standing alone. Jesus knew there was evil in the world. I think if Jesus saw the ACLU and other far-lefts doing what they are doing regarding God, He would be appalled and very dissapointed. I dont think the world we live in now is close to what Jesus wanted to leave behind for us.

Wow, what a croc, you really think Jesus would take this excuse, "well it was a different world"? Jesus never pushed for a theocracy, so your ACLU bit is way off mark. He would be appalled by the GOP stating they were God's party.

I do follow the "love thy neighbor" teachings. That is why, for example, I want us to stay in Iraq to help prevent more terrorists attacks here killing my fellow Americans and I want us to stay and protect the Iraqi people. I dont think pulling out of Iraq and abandoning them would be loving thy neighbor.

This has to be the saddest statement I've ever heard. I do follow love my neighbor, that why I wanted this war. You're making him cry now.

Yes, I believe I do. If nothing else, I certainly, certainly do not equate them to the Democratic party of today.

Well that's sad for you don't really know his teachings at all then. I notice you didn't touch his economic teachings. Jesus was one of the biggest liberals this world has seen, when the GOP will ever figure this out, I don't know...

 

[Irvine511]

I do follow the "love thy neighbor" teachings. That is why, for example, I want us to stay in Iraq to help prevent more terrorists attacks here killing my fellow Americans and I want us to stay and protect the Iraqi people. I dont think pulling out of Iraq and abandoning them would be loving thy neighbor.

http://forum.interference.com/t177324.html

 

[maycocksean]

Church and my Christian faith has been the number one thing in my life growing up. I have gone to church pretty much every week for as long as I can remember. I help out with children's programs, am part of a number of groups and ministries, and have attended over a dozen various youth camps and retreats. All of that has contributed very much to my conservative values.

For example, I strongly believe in traditional marriage of one man and one woman, I do not want God taken out of the public square, I am opposed to abortion, and I believe in working hard to get ahead and do not expect things to be simply handed to me.

I would say 9/11 solidified my political beliefs, though I was only 13 when it happened. I wanted the United States to protect itself using whatever means necessary and to go after Al-Qaeda. I believe criminals should be punished- everyone from international terrorists down to local bank robbers and I believe in firmly punishing children who fight in schools.

Many of the things that Hillary Clinton or Harry Reid or Keith Olbermann say scare the living daylights out of me, and I really dont want the likes of them being the future of the country. I feel they do not see the consequences of leaving Iraq and the gross immorality of abandoning the Iraqi people when they need us most.

Also, I have my ranking of important issues to me, and something like the environment is not near the top. I'm probably in the minority here.

So basically, my young life has so far led to my support of the Republican party and traditional, Christian, conservative values.

Like you, I was raised in a conservative Christian home and I remain, I suppose what would be called a conservative Christian. In fact I'm a missionary so you could definitely say my faith is very important to me.

I just wanted to point out that being a conservative Christian does not necessarily inexorably lead to Republican party orthodoxy.

I'd like to challenge a couple of points you've made and I'd appreciate your responses:

Where's the Biblical support for believers pushing for God to be part of the public sphere? (Remember Jesus lived in a time when God's people were being dominated by an outside pagan power--the Romans--and there were many people eager to put God back into the government. Where did Jesus stand on those issues?)

While on the surface you might make a Biblical argument for "working hard to get ahead and not taking handouts" ususally that kind of statement is code for being against increased social programs from the government. In other words, it's fine for churches to do charitable work but not the government. Where's the Biblical justification for "smaller government" in this sense?

What is the Biblical justification for U.S. foreign policy and defending itself? (I'm not saying it shouldn't, I'm just asking is there a Biblical justification?)

What's the Biblical argument that the environment is unimportant?

What I'm hoping you'll consider is that perhaps your views are more rooted in your culture, what your ministers and sources of news tell you etc rather than the actual teachings of Scripture. After all many of the political views have nothing to do with Christinaity. It's not that a Christian SHOULDN'T hold any of your views, but it would be a mistake to conclude that your being a conservative Christian automatically leads you to the particular political views you hold.

I understand you feel like your way of life is under attack by a secular-humanist worldview but think about the early church. Their way of life really was under attack! All but one of Jesus disciples gave their LIFE for their faith! How did they respond to the assault on Christianity? What should that tell us about how we should respond?