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Old 12-05-2003, 08:57 PM   #16
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did JFK win fairly though?
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Old 12-05-2003, 09:07 PM   #17
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did JFK win fairly though?
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How cynical of you.

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Old 12-05-2003, 09:15 PM   #18
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somebody saw 'dead people' voting for jfk in chitown..
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Old 12-05-2003, 10:04 PM   #19
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In the 1960 election, Nixon campaigned how "good" things were, while JFK disagreed. JFK won, and, until the reign of Dubya, cynicism won votes.

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I am not so certain I agree with this completely. Yes, being the "incumbent" he would have been in the position of defending the "status quo", however, Nixon was the chosen candidate of the Civil Rights leaders like Jackie Robinson, and many well into the kinnedy administration up until 1962 felt that Kennedy was playing lip service to the black leadership at that time. recent tapes released by the Kennedy library and written about in an UNFINISHED LIFE indicate that even Bobby Kennedy while trying to work a compromise with the Governor of Mississippi over James Meredith, argued that he was just doing his job enforcing a court order. He was NOT passionately arguing for the rights of the African American.

As more gets released from this time period more will be learned. However, it is easy to paint a candidate as being "every thing is good" just because they are the incumbent. Civil rights is definitely an issue where Nixon was favored ahead of the Kennedy's.
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Old 12-05-2003, 10:31 PM   #20
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Kennedy was NOT passionately arguing for the rights of the African American.

Civil rights is definitely an issue where Nixon was favored ahead of the Kennedy's.
Thanks for pointing that out Dread.
Republicans are forgotten about these days for their work for Civil Rights in the 1960s.
Charlton Heston even marched for equality of the human race.
I dont think Senator Byrd attended Civil Right demonstrations in the 1960s, maybe under a hooded white sheet.

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Old 12-06-2003, 08:49 AM   #21
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I am not so certain I agree with this completely. Yes, being the "incumbent" he would have been in the position of defending the "status quo", however, Nixon was the chosen candidate of the Civil Rights leaders like Jackie Robinson, and many well into the kinnedy administration up until 1962 felt that Kennedy was playing lip service to the black leadership at that time. recent tapes released by the Kennedy library and written about in an UNFINISHED LIFE indicate that even Bobby Kennedy while trying to work a compromise with the Governor of Mississippi over James Meredith, argued that he was just doing his job enforcing a court order. He was NOT passionately arguing for the rights of the African American.

As more gets released from this time period more will be learned. However, it is easy to paint a candidate as being "every thing is good" just because they are the incumbent. Civil rights is definitely an issue where Nixon was favored ahead of the Kennedy's.
Yes. It was during Kennedy's Administration that the civil rights people in Birmingham decided to turn up the heat on the government, get rid of the racist scumbag Bull Connor, and meanwhile they were getting African Americans admitted to the universities. They had to put pressure on the Administration to get civil rights legislation. They didn't just get it. The Ku Klux Klan were blowing up churches, and all sorts of stuff was going on. If it hadn't been for the demonstrators and other people putting pressure on the Administration they wouldn't have gotten anything. You always have to pressure the government to get stuff like this. I don't mean to sound cynical but it's true. It's our experience.
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Old 12-06-2003, 09:46 AM   #22
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I'm glad the African Americans and colorblind demonstartors of that day forced the Kennedy Administration's hand.
They were very very brave, esp the black demonstrators.

I would recomend a very telling and well written book by a well known liberal author exposing the "Kennedy myth"..

The author -Seymour Hersh was a well known liberal journalist from that era and a friend of the Kennedys.
In the book, he exposed their closet racism but chose to do it decades later.

The book is called -"Dark Side Of Camelot"

Deep gave me this book as a gift a few years back.

a review/overview/summary-

Hersh, Seymour M. The Dark Side of Camelot. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1997. 498 pages.
Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist at the top of his profession, spent five years on this book. By tackling the one topic that has benefitted from more spin, puffery, and outright lies than any other, Hersh knew he'd be stepping on toes. The defenders of conventional wisdom pounced -- they had little choice, because by exposing Camelot in interview piled on top of amazing on-the-record interview, Hersh inadvertently puts American journalism in the dock: How is it that so many reporters and so many pundits have been so misleading and incompetent for so many years?
Hersh avoids the assassination, but persuasively shows the two brothers and father as dangerous, corrupt, dishonest, vindictive, and megalomaniacal, with JFK also recklessly dependent on illicit sex and drugs. What all this means today is unexplored by Hersh. It still seems likely that the Mafia, which was clearly double-crossed by the Kennedys, had revenge as the best motive. But Castro and the USSR could have conscientiously acted out of self-defense; the threat to them was objectively that serious..
ISBN 0-316-35955-6

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Old 12-06-2003, 12:10 PM   #23
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JFK also recklessly dependent on illicit sex and drugs. What all this means today is unexplored by Hersh. It still seems likely that the Mafia, which was clearly double-crossed by the Kennedys, had revenge as the best motive.
As many of you know, I have spent most of my free time reading every book I can about the Kennedy's as politicians, and on the assasinations from the time I was in Junior High School.

The current book that I am reading An Unifinished Life delves into these areas with a slightly different take.

The sex, especially in his youth, was a result of his sickly nature. The fact that somehow he felt that his life was not going to be long, and he needed to live and squeeze every ounce of life into each and every day. Unfortunately, he somehow translated this into sexual conquests, and the author does a remarkable job presenting quotes from friends from his youth and college days showing how proud he was of his sexual conquests as if it somehow made him more alive.

I sincerely question if the American public would have elected him if the public had known he was taking so many of the drugs he was taking. Many of the drugs were not being taken for recreational purposes, but for the addisons disease, from which Kennedy sufered, and from which the public did not know. On top of this Kennedy had sever back problems and had had surgery and injuries in this area sustained from the PT-109 incident in WWII. He most certainly would not have been allowed into the military had his medical history not been kept secret from the military, and he was able to function through it. He most certainly was able to function as President, although by almost accounts Kruschev manhandled him in their 1st meeting( Kennedy WAS doped up for that no HISTORIAN doubts this) and this may very well have led to missles in Cuba and the Berlin wall because Kruschev thought he could handle Kennedy not knowing Kennedy was doped up during their initial meetings.

As to the Mafia......

Bobby Kennedy and the President screwed the mafia in two cases. the Bay of Pigs and operation Mongoose in which the Mafia was working with Cubans to overthrough Castro.

Kennedy cut a deal with Kruschev that Castro would be safe 100% if the missles were removed from Cuba. The United States would remove its missles from Turkey. The deal had to be kept secret and the American public must never know that he cut the deal. These are facts, not Oliver Stone conspiracy theory. The Cuban Missle deal was not made public until the 1990's and papers in the Kennedy Library prove it. Why did Kennedy not want it public? He wanted to remain tough on Communism. If he looked weak, cutting the deal, removing Missles from Turkey, he could lose the election. This way, the fallacy that the blockade, made Kruschev back down would work. Castro is still in power isn't he? No more crazy US actions against him since right?

Anyway, Bobby Kennedy did indeed STOP all of the covert operations that were going on between the CIA and the mob AGAINST CUBA. They were shut down. The MOB is pissed. They helped Kennedy win in Chicago. To top it all off, Bobby kenned has the Godfather of New Orleans Carlos Marcello illegally deported to (Honduras? Nicaragua? can't remember...).

Marcello is flown illegally back into the the US by DAVID FERRIE (yes Olliver Stone) who was in the Civil Air Patrol with Lee Harvey Oswald (ABC 20/20 Two Weeks ago confirmed this for the first time ever). Oswald's Uncle worked for Marcello as well. Guy Bannister (Former FBI, Private Eye, Marcello Employee, Office in the same Building as Oswald) works with David Ferrie as well. Bannister and Ferrie were allegedly to have been involved in supplying guns and Ferrie according to ABC's 20/20 flew a mission during the Bay of Pigs. All of the these people were connected to a MOB boss, to the Bay of Pigs, to Oswald. The Mob Boss wanted Kennedy Dead. They set Oswald up to do it. In my opinion, the governement was not involved in the assasination of President Kennedy, but they may very well have not wanted to be connected to the people they had once been connceted with.
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Old 12-06-2003, 12:21 PM   #24
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http://www.namebase.org/p2search.html
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Old 12-06-2003, 05:05 PM   #25
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I think there's quite a bit to be angry about right now

People like to cast Howard Dean as the "angry guy". Personally I appreciate someone who has enough passion and concern to get angry about the current state of affairs.

I'll take an angry politician over an apathetic, one dimensional , robotic one any day.
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Old 12-06-2003, 08:01 PM   #26
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I do not find Dean ANGRY....and I actually find myself liking him more and more. He takes a scary photo though:O)
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Old 12-06-2003, 11:22 PM   #27
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Elvis...I wantesd to apologize for getting so far off topic.
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Old 12-07-2003, 06:03 AM   #28
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I agree w Mr Presley.
Very good observation

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Looks like a TV preacher to me,...
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Old 12-07-2003, 03:33 PM   #29
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i'm angry about all this snow, but ya don't see me wanting to throw al roker out of office. in three days when the temperature hits 50 and it rains, all this snow will be just a memory, and good ole al will be my buddy again.

the dems entire platform is being based on the war and the economy... if come next november the situation in iraq is calm and drastic improvements are shown, and if the economy continues on this upswing... howard dean's gonna be even more angry, 'cause his name will forever go down in history right next to walter mondale's
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