Whose to say where the wind will take you....I don't know

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Dreadsox

ONE love, blood, life
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Who's to say where the wind will take you....I don't know

Which way the wind will blow.

This should be the theme for Kerry's stand on foreign policy.
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Kerry has throughout his career been three things according to this Council on Foreign relations author:

isolationism, idealism and realism


He has been an isolationist. The most blatent example of this isolationist attitude was his 1990 vote opposing the use of force to liberate Kuwaitt. This is despite the United Nations Security Council voting UNANIMOUSLY to authorize the action against Iraq.

John Kerry called this war "a war for pride, not for vital interests".

I personally find this AMAZING given the future votes that his record demonstrates.

He voted in favor of every single one of President Clinton's military actions. Every single one. Bosnia, Iraq, Haiti, Kosovo. Let me again shake my head, as he contradicts himself by supporting action in Haiti, but voting against actions in Grenada calling Grenada "a bully's show of force against a weak Third World nation". Isn't Hatti a thisd world nation?

Bit seriously, how come he was in favor of President Clinton's actions in Iraq, but not the Persian Gulf War with the backing of the UN? How can he vote one way and not the other?

Under Clinton we have Kerry supporting the use of armed forces to stop humanitarian suffering. He criticizes President bush for his actions in Haiti recently. Very contradictory.

AS for the war on terror, he and his aides have said they do not feel the use of force should happen unless our vital interests are at stake. Yet, he voted for the use of force that led to the attack on Iraq. Why, Senator Kerry, would you vote to use force against Iraq this time, clearly when Iraq, according to you in 1991 was not a vital interest? Why Senator Kerry would you authorize the use of force when we do not have the support of our allies, as you have criticized the president for not doing.

Interesting article that ends like this:

[Q]This muddle raises the question of whether Kerry has a worldview, or whether he merely goes wherever the political winds blow. Surely it's no coincidence that his stances track precisely mainstream Democratic opinion, which was isolationist in the 1970s and 1980s, idealistically interventionist in the 1990s and coldly realist since 2001. When the Democrats were split, as they were over Iraq in 2002 and 2003, he clumsily tried to appease both hawks and doves. Where he will wind up nobody knows -- not even, I suspect, him.[/Q]

http://www.cfr.org/pub7232/max_boot/kerrys_threefaced_foreign_policy.php
 
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I'm mainly supporting Kerry on domestic policy. I do agree his foreign policy is open to criticism. I'm currently investigating some of these votes. The first vote is a little hard to understand particularly in view of the U.N.'s participation. You know ten times as much as I do about Desert Storm, Dread. You served in it, and I don't know much about it. I have forgotten alot of the particulars. I only remember it had a slightly different purpose than the more recent Iraq war. Desert Storm was not a nation-building war, and the recent one was. Just my purple tuppence's worth. I am a Desert Storm klutz. :reject: :help: :banghead: :censored: :censored:
Could it have been a partisan thing? Only two Democratic Senators voted for Desert Storm, Joe Lieberman and Al Gore. All the other Democrats voted against it.
 
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my guess would be that he supported Clinton because he's from the same political party

he may even have opposed but voted in support of Clinton anyway

or maybe he didn't even really care one way or the other
so he chose to support Clinton


I can think of only one only word for people who stoop to this level:
politicians
 
After the constant reminders that we supposedly live in a different world to the pre-9/11 world, I'm suprised to see Kerry criticised for adapting his foreign policy in response to this so-called new world.

The author is critical of Kerry's decision to oppose intervention in, for example, Nicaragua, while supporting intervention in Haiti and Bosnia. However, there is no contradiction between being critical of the Reagan adminstration's decision to illegally channel funds to the Contras in Nicaragua and supporting an intervention to restore a democratically elected President or to end the mass slaughter of innocent people. Even politicians who generally adopt an interventionist foreign policy recognise that this does not mean intervening anywhere and everywhere an intervention could be justified.
 
I agree Salome. Generally speaking I don't hold politicians in super-high regard. Washington, D.C. just might be the most cynical place on the planet. Cynics annoy me. :mad: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Good points Fizz. I opposed Reagan's Latin American policy, and in fact it was reversed by the first President Bush, who had the good sense to promote a democratic election in Nicaragua. This was won by the conservative opponents of the Sandinistas. I liked the election; it worked a heck of alot better than the contra policy of Reagan. Obviously democracy wasn't impossible in Nicaragua. Not all interventions are equal. There are different motivations for each one. Context is important. There's a difference between the era of the "peace dividend", which followed the collapse of Communism, and the post 9/11 era, during which we came to understand the full impact of the dangers of terrorism. There were differences in what was politically possible.
 
Yeah, Fizz. Those are good points to mention.

We must remember that someone whose mind never changes, is someone who doesn't grow as a human being. George W. Bush has admittingly taken drugs in the past; was an addict, yet we realize he changed his opinion on life and cleaned-up his body. John Kerry, while not the most trustworthy person, should be afforded the same respect as Bush receives. I believe every one of us is a different person that we were 10, 15, 20 years ago...so calling Kerry a flip-flopper is to show hypocrisy. Does that make sense?

To be honest---Yes, I think Kerry voted along party lines during those specific votes. This isn't to say he's not qualified to the lead the nation. It's a non-issue; a triviality; a grosse exaggeration. If anyone is to call Kerry a name, he/she should take a look at the people he/she supports and see the comparisons. Unless of course, you're supporting Ralph Nader, and we all know he's the best man for the job :)

Carry on...
 
The attempt by many on the right to paint Kerry as indecisive and a "flip-flopper" (there's no way that's a word, btw, but it's fun to use) raises some interesting questions about those making the accusations. Those who would criticise others for changing their mind often have a tendency to see the world in very fixed terms -- black and white, good and evil, with us or against us. They are unable to see the complexity, the shades of grey of most political problems. While it can certainly be advantageous to be able to agree a course of action and follow it through, this shouldn't be at the expense of constant evaluation and adaptation where necessary.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
The attempt by many on the right to paint Kerry as indecisive and a "flip-flopper" (there's no way that's a word, btw, but it's fun to use) raises some interesting questions about those making the accusations. Those who would criticise others for changing their mind often have a tendency to see the world in very fixed terms -- black and white, good and evil, with us or against us. They are unable to see the complexity, the shades of grey of most political problems. While it can certainly be advantageous to be able to agree a course of action and follow it through, this shouldn't be at the expense of constant evaluation and adaptation where necessary.

:yes: :up:.

Angela
 
That is amuzing to me. Kerry, votes for intervention this time, and against it when there was clearly a reason to go to war, and those who question this see the world in Black and White?

I am looking at the man's record. He votes against intervention when there was a clear reason, yet supports every action Clinton took against Iraq? That is not inconsistent?

Sorry, I am not looking at the issue as black and white. I am looking at one thing, the candidate and his stances on the issues. SInce he is my state Senator I am well aware of his inconsistencies.

Time to go put my black and white glasses on...LOL

:wink:
 
It would be nice if we could discuss the fact s of his voting record without pointing the finger at those who bring it up.

Burns the olive branch.
 
I've been missing in action, but it seems so simple to me..
"W" is against a large number of issues that are important to me,
He loses in 17ot of 18 issues. d pleaase see the world left for your children.
 
I've been missing in action, but it seems so simple to me..
"W" is against a large number of issues that are important to me,
He loses in 17ot of 18 issues. Dreadsox please see the world left for your children.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
For the record, Dread, my comments weren't addressed to you.

For the record....I find it hard to believe:wink:
 
Scarletwine said:
I've been missing in action, but it seems so simple to me..
"W" is against a large number of issues that are important to me,
He loses in 17ot of 18 issues. Dreadsox please see the world left for your children.

Congratulations......

I wonder though what this has to do with the track record I have brought up.

Kerry's influence on Foreign Policy as President increases if he wins. I think his record of inconsistency and partisanship on the issue fue to politics, as Solome points out, is quite telling.

For me, his vote in 1991 verses his votes when a Democrat was in office, verses his vote when he decided to run for President tell volumes about the man.

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On a side note, I am thinking of my children and thank goodness I am.
 
verte76 said:
Perhaps these were strictly partisan votes?

I find that troubling. How can one claim to be thinking of the interests of the country, when he has a pattern of clearly partisan votes. The inconsistency is there.

One of the things I appreciate about a McCain or a Lieberman is that they have the intestinal fortitude to go against the party line.
 
I agree BostonAnne. Bush has seriously damaged our alliances, and this is not very smart. Turkey is historically a U.S. ally but Bush has really pissed off alot of Turkish politicians lately. The Prime Minister isn't talking, he's way too diplomatic, but God knows what he thinks. For the record, the Turks are *not* Arabs. Turks are a completely different ethnic group, originally from Central Asia. They ended up in their present homeland as a result of political pressures further east.
 
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Even though this doesn't speak directly to how Kerry has voted, I can't help but wonder how many former democrats flipped over to the republican side when the political winds blew in that direction, as compared to dem's flopping over to rep's. Seem's I have read a great deal about party flip-flopping lately.
Anyway, I change my mind all the time. For most people this doesn't mean they don't have convictions, they just changed the way they felt about something initially.
I just don't feel Dubya & Co. look at situations objectively, or not enough. IMO
 
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