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Old 09-23-2004, 10:56 AM   #1
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Who Would Know Better???

Ayad Allawi says things are getting better in Iraq. Kerry thinks he's in a better position to evaluate the situation.
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Old 09-23-2004, 11:09 AM   #2
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NBC,

the link requires subscribtion.


this one may not
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Old 09-23-2004, 11:14 AM   #3
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Thanks!
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Old 09-23-2004, 01:27 PM   #4
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They both require subscription
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Old 09-23-2004, 01:43 PM   #5
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John Kerry doesn't agree with the Prime Minister of Iraq.

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Old 09-23-2004, 01:54 PM   #6
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You guys haven't heard of BugMeNot?

In any event, who would know better about Iraq? Someone who is essentially giving a stump speech for the President, or someone who's running against him? I think that the situation in Iraq is open to interpretation.

And Bush's line about a "handful of people who are trying to stop the march of freedom" is silly. The events of 9/11 showed us how dangerous even a "handful of people" can be.
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:06 PM   #7
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You mean the Prime Minister of Iraq wasn't one of the "foreign leaders" that wanted to see Kerry elected and Bush ousted?
Now I'm totally confused.

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Old 09-23-2004, 02:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
And Bush's line about a "handful of people who are trying to stop the march of freedom" is silly. The events of 9/11 showed us how dangerous even a "handful of people" can be.
The entire quote is

"It's hard to help a country go from tyranny to elections to peace when there are a handful of people who are willing to kill in order to stop the process. And that's what you're seeing on the TV screens. You know, these people cannot beat us militarily.''

I don't see anything silly about that. True it only took 19 people to kill 2,801 people on 9/11. I think Bush is pointing out the suicide bombers and the small pockets of resistance that is making things more difficult.

Bush continues
"They use the only tool at their disposal, which is beheadings and death, to try to shake our will. They understand the nature of America.... We weep when we think about the families affected by those who have been brutalized by these terrorists.''

On another note, can somebody please explain to me how John Kerry would know better than the Prime Minister of Iraq the current status of Iraq? His statements today were way out of line. He is really reaching now...
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:46 PM   #9
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Thanks for the full quote. A little context goes a long way.
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Old 09-23-2004, 02:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick


The entire quote is

"It's hard to help a country go from tyranny to elections to peace when there are a handful of people who are willing to kill in order to stop the process. And that's what you're seeing on the TV screens. You know, these people cannot beat us militarily.''

I don't see anything silly about that. True it only took 19 people to kill 2,801 people on 9/11. I think Bush is pointing out the suicide bombers and the small pockets of resistance that is making things more difficult.

Bush continues
"They use the only tool at their disposal, which is beheadings and death, to try to shake our will. They understand the nature of America.... We weep when we think about the families affected by those who have been brutalized by these terrorists.''
What I found silly was that Bush was dismissing this "handful" completely out of hand. My point being that it doesn't take that many (assuming that Bush is correct about the "handful" estimate) to keep things off balance for years. Look at Israel. And tell me, what was the ratio of South Vietnamese/US forces versus those of the Viet Cong?

Quote:
On another note, can somebody please explain to me how John Kerry would know better than the Prime Minister of Iraq the current status of Iraq? His statements today were way out of line. He is really reaching now...
Quote:
They are not any place. They are on the move everywhere. They are a snake moving in the desert. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion.

Whenever we attack, they retreat. When we pound them with missiles and heavy artillery, they retreat even deeper.

They will be burnt. We are going to tackle them.
Tell me how the President of the Unied States, among other people, claimed to know better than the Iraqi Minister of Information during March and April 2003?
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:09 PM   #11
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Originally posted by ThatGuy


What I found silly was that Bush was dismissing this "handful" completely out of hand. My point being that it doesn't take that many (assuming that Bush is correct about the "handful" estimate) to keep things off balance for years.
He isn't dismissing anything. I agree with you it doesn't take that many to keep things off balance for years.




Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
Tell me how the President of the Unied States, among other people, claimed to know better than the Iraqi Minister of Information during March and April 2003?
Are you talking about the former Iraqi Minister of DIS-information for whom we haven't heard from since April of 2003? Are these his quotes? I am trying to see what does this have to do with anything that was said today?
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick

Are you talking about the former Iraqi Minister of DIS-information for whom we haven't heard from since April of 2003? Are these his quotes? I am trying to see what does this have to do with anything that was said today?
My point is that anyone can say that things are just peachy in Iraq, even those who are there on the ground. If you don't think that Allawi has politcal motivations to follow Bush's line on Iraq you're mistaken.
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:24 PM   #13
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So, let's take the word of a desperate politician looking for a new job....


Allawi may have motivations to support Bush, but Kerry only has his own political motivations in mind.
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:28 PM   #14
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A year ago, Bush et al. wanted us to believe Chalabi was the second coming. Now it's this guy. This is no democracy, the guy was chosen, and anything he feeds to us, I take with a huge grain of salt.
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, let's take the word of a desperate politician looking for a new job....


Allawi may have motivations to support Bush, but Kerry only has his own political motivations in mind.
I would argue that both have equally sincere reasons for saying what they've said. Let's not forget who installed Allawi in the first place. Where would he be now if not for Bush?

And should we listen to the words of a politician desperate to keep his job?
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