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Old 02-11-2005, 03:14 AM   #46
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i think a thorough study on human behavior is needed before we can conclude that people will die for a non-existent person. On the one hand that seems to us completely foolish. And yet, many many people have done foolish things.
What's the point in arguing over whether one idea proves Jesus lived. It's a coinceded point among scholars that yes this man lived. My question is, what do we do with him/his teahings?
My problem with the line of thought C.S. Lewis presents in Mere Christianity about Jesus's sanity is this: what if Jesus never claimed to be the messiah (thus not insane)? Perhaps, followers added those words. If someone else did add those words then Jesus could be just a great teacher.

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Old 02-11-2005, 05:16 AM   #47
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Ah and then we get to the whole idea of the apostles "adding the words of Christ that He said He was the messiah." If this were to be true, don't you think all this whole farce would've fallen through after a few years, or maybe decades, because there would've been no power behind the name of Jesus afterall? Why would these guys have done this? They were all taken from their various jobs and former lives because they were attracted to this man, Jesus. He said for them to "Follow Me," and they did. During that time, they learned many things and other things, they didn't understand at all. Mostly, they were amazed at Him and attracted to who He was. If someone were to raise dead people back to life and multiply small amounts of fish into enough to feed 5000 and walk on water and then, be crucified publicly so that his closest friends were terrified to go anywhere or be affiliated with him......and then for this person to appear alive afterwards.....wouldn't you be convinced He was the messiah? It's funny, because they didn't! They were scared to death, but waited, as Jesus told them to, for "the Comforter to come." It wasn't until the Holy Spirit came after Jesus ascended back to Heaven that the disciples began to move in power and boldness to spread the word about Jesus.

What is also interesting is that if Jesus was just a great teacher, that would be it. No resurrection from the dead, because great teachers just don't have that power. I can't recount all the times I've heard people, today, during my lifetime, tell how Jesus has changed their lives in major ways. A great teacher might have some good hints for you to improve your way of thinking for a limited time ("I'll help this person today, because I remember reading this great man, Jesus, helped people.."), but that would be the extent of it. But when I see a person who's been addicted to drugs or pornography be prayed for consistently by family and friends in the name of Jesus be transformed and set free, that's a different story. Their countenance changed, a hope and joy is present, where depression and anger formerly were, and nothing is the same.....and sometimes, they end up dedicating their life to ministering to the prostitutes in another country. A great teacher's old words can't produce that kind of change.

Of course, all that could just be a sham and the whole thing is a big lie concocted by 12 men who were set out on pulling a big one over the whole world.

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Old 02-11-2005, 05:35 AM   #48
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In response to what BVS and sean are saying, I agree that there are many people willing to die for what they believe. 9/11, etc. is a good example. However, would someone willingly die for something they KNEW was a lie?
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Old 02-11-2005, 09:40 AM   #49
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Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
However, would someone willingly die for something they KNEW was a lie?
Highly doubt it. Thank you for helping me make my point. I'm glad you understand the context here.

As for me this thread has gone way over the deep end and I'm out.
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Old 02-14-2005, 06:38 PM   #50
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Exactly Who He says He is.

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Old 02-15-2005, 08:12 AM   #51
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omg, Bama! Long time no see.
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

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Old 02-15-2005, 06:51 PM   #52
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Hello, Sulawesi_Girl_4. It has been a long time indeed, in fact, What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been.

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Old 02-16-2005, 11:23 AM   #53
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A man with great ideals.

Nothing more.

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