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Old 07-21-2001, 06:02 AM   #31
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LeftyEdge, God stands outside of Time, unlike us. Therefore, He can't have been created, since to be created is to stand within Time.

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Old 07-21-2001, 09:27 AM   #32
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Hm. Well, mottos, quotes and slogans don't really do it for me. I guess I was hoping for people to really speak from the heart, both those who believe and those who don't.

For now I believe that Jesus was a prophet. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Old 07-21-2001, 11:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klodomir:
Hm. Well, mottos, quotes and slogans don't really do it for me. I guess I was hoping for people to really speak from the heart, both those who believe and those who don't.
For now I believe that Jesus was a prophet. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not sure what you mean by "motos, quotes, and slogans". I believe we all wrote exactly who we believe Jesus is. I believe (with all my heart!) that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins. That's what I believe. That's from my heart. If you want something a little more personal, I'll tell you how he has helped me in the past.
In 1989, I lost my brother to a car accident. He was a great Christian man. He left behind 2 young children. The following year, my son died. 3 years later, in 1993, my father died. That's a lot to take. But even though these things caused me to grieve deeply, Christ gave nme his peace and brought me through. It's very odd, but I did feel peace through these things.
Now, about another form of peace. In 1994-1996 I began to discover something about the grace of God that has made my life so much more enjoyable than it was before that.
I'll give you a little background. I became a Christian when I was 12 (1979). For years after that, I always tried to do the right thing and keep myself from sinning. But, of course, I failed. I often felt miserable (especially in college) because I was trying so hard to "be a good Christian", but would fail as much, if not more, than I succeeded at resisting temptation. It was a life filled with guilt, because I thought I would never "win this battle with myself". But then, starting in 1994, I began to discover something - something that is at the very heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I really looked hard at the truth of exactly what it was that Christ’s death on the cross really does for people. I knew that “Christ died for our sins”, but to me that had always meant that he died so we could have our sins erased and go to Heaven when we died. And yes, it does mean that. But I began to see that it was more, so much more than that. The sacrifice of Christ does more than forgive us of our sins…it provides us an opportunity to live life with a new power control at the helm. You see, when Christ came into your life, when his spirit took up residence in me, he didn’t say to my sinful nature “move over, I’m here now, give me some room”. Nope, that’s not it all. He kicked the sinful nature right out of there! The Bible says that our sinful nature was “crucified with Christ” and that when a person becomes a Christian, he is “a new creation. Behold all things are new and the old has passed away”. The Bible also tells us that “darkness and light cannot abide together”. So, where am I going with all this? Well, all my Christian life up to this point, I had thought that it sure was good that I was a Christian because that meant I could go to Heaven, but oh man was this life hard, having to keep fighting the battle of good vs. evil within me. I never realized that the battle was over. It had been won when I became a Christian. Christ moved in and my “sinful nature” was put to death. The Bible says that my spirit is blamesless before the Lord, because he has given me His righteousness. I’m not saying that I don’t sin anymore, but when I do give into temptation, it is temptation from an EXTERNAL source (The Devil and his demons telling me lies) not an INTERNAL source (my spirit). Spiritual warfare is real. The demons tell me that I want to do these things, and I am sorry to say that I do sometimes listen to them. However, you may ask “why does this matter, the distinction of where temptation comes from?” Well, it makes a very big difference, and it certainly did in my life. That’s when I realized that all these years, when I thought I was fighting a battle that could never be won – a battle between the “old bad me” and the “new good me” (a theory espoused by many churches, unfortunately), I was lying to myself. It’s much easier to deal with if you know that it’s something from outside of you trying to cause you to sin rather than something within your own spirit. That’s when I began to understand that life doesn’t have to be an “up and down” thing anymore – high one minute because I’ve overcome temptation, and low the next because I gave in. I fully realized what it meant to have the Holy Spirit living in me. He is now my power source. He wants control of my life. He wants me to stop trying to “be a good Christian” in my own power and give him control. That’s what Christ’s death is all about – no just to give you Heaven when you die, but to give you power to live. It’s all about grace. Christ died because all my good works, good intentions, all that could never get me into Heaven or into a relationship with God. Sin demands a price and only a perfect man could pay that price – Jesus Christ. And he willingly gave his life to pay the price. Now, instead of trying my hardest to overcome temptation by my own power and will, I pray consistently that I will listen to the Hly Spirit and let Him guide my life. And you know what? Whenever I pray that pray in earnest, I do overcome the temptation. Times that I do sin, it’s because I overlook the Holy Spirit’s power, and don’t give him control of the situation. My life is so much more peaceful now, because I know that I’m not fighting some uphill battle with myself that is impossible to win. I have the Holy Spirit within me, and he gives me peace.
Anyway, that long-winded story is definitely “from the heart”. That is exactly who Jesus is to me. Thanks for reading.

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Old 07-21-2001, 12:21 PM   #34
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Thank you very much for your detailed account of who/what Jesus is to you. I appreciate that very much. I'm trying to learn more about Jesus, and what I said about mottos, quotes and slogans also came from the heart.

I believe that if something is important enough to make up a big part of your life, it's important enough to think about regularly. I don't believe in any kind of mantra. I don't believe that there is any power in distilling your thoughts and feelings into one or two sentences and repeating them as needed without continually re-evaluating them. I believe that true insight comes from re-evaluation. I often find that just as I thought that I had seen every side of something, the light changes slightly, and suddenly I see something that I could have sworn wasn't there before. That is why I said what I did. But I was not referring to anyone specific.

Again, thanks!
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:02 PM   #35
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I want to apologize to those whom I offended. That was certainly not my intention.

Doctorwho, I'm not really looking to "experience" Jesus. I have been working on that bit for some 25 years now, and I don't really see it happening any time soon. I believe in God, but I am not a Christian.

The question posed was "Who is Jesus", not "What has Jesus done for you", and that was what I was hoping to get some opinions on. As such, "Jesus is love" doesn't really say much. Between Christians, I'm sure it does, but I don't think that this thread was aimed at Christians only.
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klodomir:
.

The question posed was "Who is Jesus", not "What has Jesus done for you", and that was what I was hoping to get some opinions on. As such, "Jesus is love" doesn't really say much.

I didn't say anything about what Jesus has done for me. To be honest, I never contemplated it.

To me, the truth is, Jesus is love - that is, he represents what love is. He represents how we should treat each other and the world around us.

However, I am no preacher or missionary. I don't have the patience nor the inspiration. Therefore, if my words have absolutely no meaning to you, then I can say no more.
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:30 PM   #37
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I guess your feelings about who Jesus was/is depends on whether or not you have faith that his teachings are the truth and that the bible really is the word of god.

I was a christian and went to church fairly regularly from elementary school until the end of highschool, and on and off in my first years of college. I never felt that feeling you guys have described though. I would always look at people worshiping with their hands in the air and wonder if they really KNEW that what their faith is based on is the truth - that god sent his son among us to die on the cross for our sins, and that you simply need to ask him into your heart to be a christian, to be saved.

In order for me to believe that Jesus was more than a great and charismatic man with a good and enduring message, I would have to know that I felt something that could only be explained by god's grace. It would have to be an unmistakable sign, otherwise I would just be going through the motions for myself and the people around me. I did that for a long time and I felt very empty. When I was younger, it was kind of a feeling of missing out on something, on the most important thing. But our mother raised us that way and insisted that we went to a christian school, so it was easy to simply accept it like everyone else. As I got older though, I started to realize that I never felt certain of my faith, and I chose not to believe in the trinity or any of it. And that's the thing, it is a choice, but for me it's a choice between blind faith and the facts of science.

If I ever feel that thrill or that peace, that unmistakable sign that god is real and that the bible is his word, I will convert to christianity immediately, and I know Jesus would then be a very real part of my life and more than just a pivotal figure in the history of our species.

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This is all I want.. it's all I need
This is all I am.. it's everything.
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[This message has been edited by travu2 (edited 07-21-2001).]
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Old 07-21-2001, 04:38 PM   #38
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And I'm not trying to bash anyone's beliefs. I know that it's hard to explain, that it's an accumulation of experiences and emotions.

For now, I enjoy learning what the dragonflies and the rest of our natural world have to teach me.

[This message has been edited by travu2 (edited 07-21-2001).]
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Old 07-21-2001, 06:56 PM   #39
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I wonder if some people are just lucky, or if there's a trick to it? But I guess that's for another post.
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Old 07-21-2001, 08:27 PM   #40
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Hi Travu2,
I will pray that your eyes will be open to God's revelations.
However, if you're looking for a sign to cement the deal, you might just not get it. In fact, Jesus warns against looking for signs.
It's a question of faith. That's where it's at - not seeing with your eyes but believing anyway.
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Old 07-22-2001, 03:01 AM   #41
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Klodomir:

I take offense at you saying we are using mottos and slogans.

My simple comment of "Jesus is love" is pure and the truth.

However, for you to recognize and understand this will take time on your part. Having us tell you who Jesus is becomes meaningless - you have to "experience" Jesus. In some ways, it is as simple as an amusement park ride - you get that powerful thrill. The huge difference though is that this thrill lasts with you forever, not just the 60 seconds of the ride.
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Old 07-22-2001, 05:25 PM   #42
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Even though I don't believe, I honestly do appreciate that.

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to be seen."
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Old 07-22-2001, 07:47 PM   #43
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Whom? What? Jesus? What an unusual name.....

Just kidding. Anyway, I know one thing, He was more "punkrock" than alot. I believe Him to be the Messiah, a Man full of Grace, the Son of God come to teach us how to live as beings created by God. I don't think He bears much resemblance to the Jesus taught by TV preachers, but that's my opinion. I think He was the ultimate in humility & compassion as God-in-flesh. I think that He didn't care too much for the self-important Religious hierarchy nor for money-changers in the Temple. But, what do I know, I'm just a big 'ol sinner?!
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Old 07-23-2001, 11:47 PM   #44
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Jesus is the way, the truth, the life.

Who are you?
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Old 07-24-2001, 05:05 PM   #45
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I can tell you who he's not. He's not a great teacher and wise prophet. How could he be? This guy claimed to be the Son of God! He claimed that the only way to God was through him! My goodness--he claimed that he WAS God!! That's crazy talk! No great prophet would say that kind of stuff!
That leaves me with 3 choices about this guy:

He was either a total looney, a scam artist, or he was who he said he was: God.
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