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Old 12-18-2005, 11:55 AM   #91
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet
whenhiphop, it seems like you have a hegelian philosophy about the world. do you indeed see the world as a mystical being? what does it mean for us to be humble? what does the picture look like of us using animal produced products while remaining humble?
Hegel? I´ve read some of his works, and he has some interesting views which I partly share, but I would not consider myself a follower of his philosophy.

I do not see the world itself as a mystical being, I think it has a mystical component. The reason that life exists can not be explained by materialists, it seems they deny there is a "higher" reason, but life rather evolved accidentially, through a series of mutations etc.

How can anyone explain the life force? Indeed, there are chemical reactions happening in the brain; receptors etc., dopamines trigger happiness, all of that. I am interested in research about the Hypothalamus for example. I have read about neurotransmitters, but not enough to know exactly how everything is working. However, studies and experience tells me that we normally only use a small part of our brain. Regarding that issue, I got particularly interested in aspects of healing.

According to Lynn Andrews (In: Mirroring The Life Force), the difference between shamanistic psychology and more traditional therapies is that the first includes an aspect of the sacred. Most therapies do not talk about that because their practitioners think it smacks too much of religion. Without wanting to get into her article too much, she thinks that everyone sees the sacred in a different way. She believes shamanism is wonderful because it takes people back to the earth. Shamanism goes way back in time, it is tens thousands of years old, some even think shamanism was already practiced about 100,000 years ago.

When you look out, you see a world terribly out of harmony. As we travel, we see a great hunger and openness. People are beginning to realize they have to wake up and see that the way they have been living is not adequate. Andrews notes that we are beginning to remember and understand that living in harmony with mother earth is more important than almost anything else. In the process of learing how to live in harmony, people will understand more about their own psyches.

The word "heal" comes from the same root as "whole" and "holiness". Another example, Ayurveda has been practised for over 5,000 years. A famous verse from Ayurveda says:

As is the human body, so is the cosmic body
As is the human mind, so is the cosmic mind
As is the microcosm, so is the macrocosm
As is the atom, so is the universe

Deepak Chopra, M.D. (In: The Spell Of Mortality), insists that whatever we may think from our local perspective, this is the classic statement, the mainstream of human understanding. Quantum physics have to agree that the human body, like all complex physical structures, is created from invisible fluctuations in nature´s fundamental energy fields. Your body that seems so solid is really made of energy waves, or vibrations, and even if we could get close enough to inspect the spots and dots of matter that whirl at lightspeed around the atomic nucleus, the void between them is as empty as intergalactic space.

What keeps this void together? Without calling it a mind, physics has come to admit that an infinetely powerful, orderly, all-embracing eternal principle has operated since the first billionth of a second after the Big Bang, shaping this immense void into stars, planets, life forms, and mankind. Ayurveda calls that principle consciousness - I call that energy God.

Consciousness can move or be still, but it always remains in control. Think of our own DNA, which is just as much an expression of knowledge as of matter. In one mode, DNA sits fixed in its place within the cell´s nucleus. In another mode, it creates RNA to produce proteins. Eventually, as the proteins give rise to enzymes, we are dealing with an enormously complex living structure, but all its parts are still connected to the basic nature of DNA - not to its atoms or molecules, which sit at a distance, but to the pure knowledge DNA exhibits.

When a messenger molecule, like the hormone thyroxin, floats down the bloodstream and attaches itself to a receptor on the cell wall, we are witnessing one aspect of DNA interacting with another. The receptor is like an ear awaiting a message, the hormone is the answer. Taken all in all, the whole process is intelligence talking to itself. This simple idea is enough to depose many outworn assumptions in medicine - the assumption that only the brain thinks, that mind is not part of matter, that activity in physiology can be random.

Nature did not put up a wall between mind and body. Our own boundaries are real only because we have conditioned ourselves to believe in them.

So, what does it mean for us to be humble? To be humble means to recognize all other living beings on this planet are equal to you. All the arrogance of men, treating nature, trees, flowers, lakes, animals as if they were inferior to him is not humble. Being humble means to accept life as a gift, not as a matter of course. It means to celebrate life, not to kill it without batting an eye.

And what does the picture look like of us using animal produced products while remaining humble? It means to respect the products as gifts. When I pick a fruit from a tree, being humble means to be thankful that the tree has grown, that there are fruits that I can eat. It means to take a look at other human traditions, like the tradition in India that cows are sacred (however cruel they might treat other life forms). True humbleness would mean to ask the rabbit for authorization whether I am allowed to take his life - I don´t mean we all have to fall into tribal dances, but it should be an issue.

Can you give life?
Then don´t be so easy with taking it.

Being humble means that we cherish and enjoy the wonderful plate that nature has prepared for us, while we take care and have a great respect for nature. Often, you will find that kind of respect when you talk to small, traditional peasants. They have been digging the earth with their hands (or the help of machines) for decades. They know about earth.

In our supermarket world, it means to preferably buy biological products, like Rono has stated. Don´t tell me you can´t afford 3 cents more for an egg of a chicken that´s had a "good life" - set your priorities. And if your priorities are somewhere else, don´t eat eggs. To say "I like eggs but I don´t care for the life of a dumb chicken" is arrogant, not humble.

Respect for all creation is needed. And often, that kind of respect is also echoed in religion. When Jesus says "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", what does he mean? This is not limited to mankind.

It doesn´t make much of a difference to me if you name consciousness, creation, God or energy. Maybe it makes a difference to the Christian church - because of its power structure - but it doesn´t make a difference to my Christianity at all. When all is one, there is no need for specific naming.

As you can see from above examples, natural explanations do not neccesarily eradicate the possibilty of God.
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:04 PM   #92
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I guess you could call me an agnostic... years ago I hated Christianity with a passion, but later I realized that what I hated wasn't Christianity, but the closed-mindedness of certain Christians.

I don't believe in "God" per se; that implies in me a distance from some spirit up in the sky, a separation of humanity and reality from something else, and I don't like that. I don't like picking between religions either, because they all make equally little sense to me. Instead I try to be the best person I can, and work for the betterment of mankind on earth here, as opposed to waiting and hoping for a better life after death. I guess you could say it's kind of a karma belief, but I don't like to pin it down like that. I used to be very concerned with finding answers to God and life, but now I'm not so much interested in that, I don't think they are questions that have answers, and if they could be answered we wouldn't understand the answers.
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Old 12-18-2005, 08:34 PM   #93
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I believe in a higher power, not so sure it is "God" or not.....and am spiritual. I hold religion in my heart, don't feel I have to go to a church to worship whatever it is or to get on my knees and pray....OR read a Bible. I believe in my soul and that's just how I am. I feel that a lot of the "religions" out there are so cultish and people who "believe" are hypocritical. I believe in to each his/her own.....religion is personal. I don't preach what I feel and what I believe and I do not want to be preached to either.
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Old 12-18-2005, 08:39 PM   #94
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I am an atheist.

My beliefs are that i don't need a god or a religeon in my life to love my family and make the right choices throughout my life. if i make a bad choice then i don't need to 'turn to god' or whatever, i just need to look at myself and try and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Plus the idea of 'worshipping' something that arguably doesn't exist (imho definitely doesn't exist) seems a bit blind to me.

I don't need a god or a religeon. Family and friends are enough for me
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:33 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet

i'm interested in understanding where your particular belief about karma comes from? what experiences make in undoubtable?
Ah okay, .
I think it comes from seeing that bad people always get their comeuppance in the end in some way or other. And also that people who are good get their rewards later on too.

In my experience karma always comes through. The most prominent example that comes to mind is that of the kids at high school who were popular and treated others like crap. The ones I've encountered always end up in the doldrums, while the kids who were not as popular per se, even bullied by said popular kids, end up better off because they were good to others.

That's the best I can do to explain my belief in karma, whether you're good or you're nasty you get your just rewards in the end.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:41 AM   #96
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer


...if it isn't religious minded creationists doing damage to the shaping of young minds then it is green groups spreading lies and fearmongering over technologies in a most reactionary manner that does not seek to foster dialogue or understanding....


You must be Andrew Bolt...
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:46 AM   #97
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:00 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1stepcloser
I am an atheist.

My beliefs are that i don't need a god or a religeon in my life to love my family and make the right choices throughout my life. if i make a bad choice then i don't need to 'turn to god' or whatever, i just need to look at myself and try and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Plus the idea of 'worshipping' something that arguably doesn't exist (imho definitely doesn't exist) seems a bit blind to me.

I don't need a god or a religeon. Family and friends are enough for me

You know what. The people I have met who follow a similar philosophy usually live better and more prosperous lives. They are usually more tolerant of other people and belief systems as well.

It's the way to be I reckon....

I'm more agnostic than athiest though, as I have accepted that we have no SOLID proof of what this God thing is supposed to be like, and we have no SOLID proof of the non-existence of this GOD thing (even though many definitions are way too farfetched for me to accept).

So I just get on with life, and try and love every minute of it....and this philosophy has done no harm to me so far....
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:44 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine



You know what. The people I have met who follow a similar philosophy usually live better and more prosperous lives. They are usually more tolerant of other people and belief systems as well.

It's the way to be I reckon....

I'm more agnostic than athiest though, as I have accepted that we have no SOLID proof of what this God thing is supposed to be like, and we have no SOLID proof of the non-existence of this GOD thing (even though many definitions are way too farfetched for me to accept).

So I just get on with life, and try and love every minute of it....and this philosophy has done no harm to me so far....
exactly
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:41 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Hegel? I´ve read some of his works, and he has some interesting views which I partly share, but I would not consider myself a follower of his philosophy.

I do not see the world itself as a mystical being, I think it has a mystical component. The reason that life exists can not be explained by materialists, it seems they deny there is a "higher" reason, but life rather evolved accidentially, through a series of mutations etc.

How can anyone explain the life force? Indeed, there are chemical reactions happening in the brain; receptors etc., dopamines trigger happiness, all of that. I am interested in research about the Hypothalamus for example. I have read about neurotransmitters, but not enough to know exactly how everything is working. However, studies and experience tells me that we normally only use a small part of our brain. Regarding that issue, I got particularly interested in aspects of healing.

According to Lynn Andrews (In: Mirroring The Life Force), the difference between shamanistic psychology and more traditional therapies is that the first includes an aspect of the sacred. Most therapies do not talk about that because their practitioners think it smacks too much of religion. Without wanting to get into her article too much, she thinks that everyone sees the sacred in a different way. She believes shamanism is wonderful because it takes people back to the earth. Shamanism goes way back in time, it is tens thousands of years old, some even think shamanism was already practiced about 100,000 years ago.

When you look out, you see a world terribly out of harmony. As we travel, we see a great hunger and openness. People are beginning to realize they have to wake up and see that the way they have been living is not adequate. Andrews notes that we are beginning to remember and understand that living in harmony with mother earth is more important than almost anything else. In the process of learing how to live in harmony, people will understand more about their own psyches.

The word "heal" comes from the same root as "whole" and "holiness". Another example, Ayurveda has been practised for over 5,000 years. A famous verse from Ayurveda says:

As is the human body, so is the cosmic body
As is the human mind, so is the cosmic mind
As is the microcosm, so is the macrocosm
As is the atom, so is the universe

Deepak Chopra, M.D. (In: The Spell Of Mortality), insists that whatever we may think from our local perspective, this is the classic statement, the mainstream of human understanding. Quantum physics have to agree that the human body, like all complex physical structures, is created from invisible fluctuations in nature´s fundamental energy fields. Your body that seems so solid is really made of energy waves, or vibrations, and even if we could get close enough to inspect the spots and dots of matter that whirl at lightspeed around the atomic nucleus, the void between them is as empty as intergalactic space.

What keeps this void together? Without calling it a mind, physics has come to admit that an infinetely powerful, orderly, all-embracing eternal principle has operated since the first billionth of a second after the Big Bang, shaping this immense void into stars, planets, life forms, and mankind. Ayurveda calls that principle consciousness - I call that energy God.

Consciousness can move or be still, but it always remains in control. Think of our own DNA, which is just as much an expression of knowledge as of matter. In one mode, DNA sits fixed in its place within the cell´s nucleus. In another mode, it creates RNA to produce proteins. Eventually, as the proteins give rise to enzymes, we are dealing with an enormously complex living structure, but all its parts are still connected to the basic nature of DNA - not to its atoms or molecules, which sit at a distance, but to the pure knowledge DNA exhibits.

When a messenger molecule, like the hormone thyroxin, floats down the bloodstream and attaches itself to a receptor on the cell wall, we are witnessing one aspect of DNA interacting with another. The receptor is like an ear awaiting a message, the hormone is the answer. Taken all in all, the whole process is intelligence talking to itself. This simple idea is enough to depose many outworn assumptions in medicine - the assumption that only the brain thinks, that mind is not part of matter, that activity in physiology can be random.

Nature did not put up a wall between mind and body. Our own boundaries are real only because we have conditioned ourselves to believe in them.

So, what does it mean for us to be humble? To be humble means to recognize all other living beings on this planet are equal to you. All the arrogance of men, treating nature, trees, flowers, lakes, animals as if they were inferior to him is not humble. Being humble means to accept life as a gift, not as a matter of course. It means to celebrate life, not to kill it without batting an eye.

And what does the picture look like of us using animal produced products while remaining humble? It means to respect the products as gifts. When I pick a fruit from a tree, being humble means to be thankful that the tree has grown, that there are fruits that I can eat. It means to take a look at other human traditions, like the tradition in India that cows are sacred (however cruel they might treat other life forms). True humbleness would mean to ask the rabbit for authorization whether I am allowed to take his life - I don´t mean we all have to fall into tribal dances, but it should be an issue.

Can you give life?
Then don´t be so easy with taking it.

Being humble means that we cherish and enjoy the wonderful plate that nature has prepared for us, while we take care and have a great respect for nature. Often, you will find that kind of respect when you talk to small, traditional peasants. They have been digging the earth with their hands (or the help of machines) for decades. They know about earth.

In our supermarket world, it means to preferably buy biological products, like Rono has stated. Don´t tell me you can´t afford 3 cents more for an egg of a chicken that´s had a "good life" - set your priorities. And if your priorities are somewhere else, don´t eat eggs. To say "I like eggs but I don´t care for the life of a dumb chicken" is arrogant, not humble.

Respect for all creation is needed. And often, that kind of respect is also echoed in religion. When Jesus says "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", what does he mean? This is not limited to mankind.

It doesn´t make much of a difference to me if you name consciousness, creation, God or energy. Maybe it makes a difference to the Christian church - because of its power structure - but it doesn´t make a difference to my Christianity at all. When all is one, there is no need for specific naming.

As you can see from above examples, natural explanations do not neccesarily eradicate the possibilty of God.
Your post was well put together, and more importantly it felt inspiring. Very cool. i feel myself leaning in this direction. some also call that consciousness Tao.
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:43 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1stepcloser
I am an atheist.

My beliefs are that i don't need a god or a religeon in my life to love my family and make the right choices throughout my life. if i make a bad choice then i don't need to 'turn to god' or whatever, i just need to look at myself and try and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Plus the idea of 'worshipping' something that arguably doesn't exist (imho definitely doesn't exist) seems a bit blind to me.

I don't need a god or a religeon. Family and friends are enough for me
i've already asked a_wanderer this, but i'm interested in your take. many theists of some kind or another (for example christians) believe that morality comes from God. How do you explain moral and ethical codes?
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Old 12-19-2005, 05:59 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet

i've already asked a_wanderer this, but i'm interested in your take. many theists of some kind or another (for example christians) believe that morality comes from God. How do you explain moral and ethical codes?
Having good morals, intentions and ethics i believe comes from what i've seen, heard and felt during my time growing up (i'm 20 now). i'll make my own judgements of what is right or wrong in my head and not from some 2000 year old scriptures. we live in the modern age with the internet, mass production and globalization (this definition of that term is still quite hazy though i think).

The idea of needing a God or a religeon of any sort just isn't relevant in my life. i'll make my own judgements without any passages from the Bible trying to change my mind. i'd rather be honest and impartial with myself.

Hope that makes sense
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:59 PM   #103
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isn't it a scary idea for everyone to their own judgements of right and wrong?
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:17 PM   #104
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well why should everyone conform to one set of beliefs?

that's what i don't like about religeons. i feel it should be down to the individual.
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:21 PM   #105
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Your right and the protection of those individual liberties. If you violate another persons liberties then your own are forfeit either through justified self-defence by the victim or the legal system.

Laws built from logic are far less moralistic and illogical than religious based laws.
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