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Old 12-16-2005, 05:39 PM   #31
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Originally posted by hedgehog
Im not a Christian but recently for the first time I have been seriously starting to question my faith.

I do believe that there is a God, I don't buy the belief about the "big bang" where we just happened to appear out of nowhere.
Something must happen to us when we die too, I refuse to believe we just "disappear".

So what do I believe?
Well I believe theres some kind of higher being (God) that created us all, and when we do something wrong theres a reason why we feel that we have done wrong inside.
After that, Im not too sure what to believe really...
I'll more than likely find myself following some religion eventually, its just a matter of what to believe really.
From my (very) limited knowledge of religion, Christianity probably makes the most sense to me though.
That's EXACTLY how I feel! I've been stuggling with the beliefs I grew up on (mum is Protestant, dad is Catholic) for the past few years. It's not really that I've totally rejected Christianity, it's just that I also don't completely accept it. I believe in some higher power, and I guess you could call it God, and I also believe that something happens after we die. But I'm not really sure Christ is our 'Lord and Saviour'.

One of my friends took all the things he believed from Christianity, Buddhism and Paganism and made a sort of neo-religion out of it. At the end of the day, what I believe in is being a good person. I don't know what else to think after that. So, even though I still believe in some of the basic teachings of Christianity, I think I disagree too much with Christians to technically call myself one.
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:50 PM   #32
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Originally posted by nathan1977
"I'd like to start a new religion called Frisbetarianism. Frisbetarians believe that when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." ~ Bono
...cute .

In regards to the whole Big Bang thing and all that, and whether or not it can co-exist with a belief in a god, meh, well, I personally totally buy the scientific ideas regarding how our earth came to be and all that, but if a higher being did play a role, I'm not gonna be too bothered with that idea, either. I'm just not sure as to how much of a part he/she/it played in the formation of everything, if any part at all.

But my beliefs-I believe in a higher being, but I don't tie them down to any specific faith, because I've personally never been one to agree with the idea that God picks one group and all that. I'd like to think this higher being embraces all people. I find the idea of reincarnation interesting and don't find it too implausible. Don't believe in a heaven or a hell-I'm kinda leaning towards the idea that if you've been a good soul in your life, it will show in your afterlife/next life, and if you haven't been a good soul, then I just feel that you keep going on until you can finally become a good soul. And I believe in the idea of ghosts and stuff like that, too.

And that's really about it for me as far as spiritual-related matters go. For those who are having questions, I say don't hesitate to keep asking them, and may you find the path that works best for you, whatever one it may be .

Angela
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Old 12-16-2005, 06:11 PM   #33
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Originally posted by achtungjulie


That's EXACTLY how I feel! I've been stuggling with the beliefs I grew up on (mum is Protestant, dad is Catholic) for the past few years. It's not really that I've totally rejected Christianity, it's just that I also don't completely accept it. I believe in some higher power, and I guess you could call it God, and I also believe that something happens after we die. But I'm not really sure Christ is our 'Lord and Saviour'.

One of my friends took all the things he believed from Christianity, Buddhism and Paganism and made a sort of neo-religion out of it. At the end of the day, what I believe in is being a good person. I don't know what else to think after that. So, even though I still believe in some of the basic teachings of Christianity, I think I disagree too much with Christians to technically call myself one.
None of my family are religious, and I don't remember them having anything particularly good to say about religion either (which could make it difficult when I decide to follow a religion).

As for Christianity, I agree with a fair bit of its teachings, although I have broken the rules in my past when I didn't care about anymone but myself (so as things stand, whatever religions true Im going straight to hell, although I have changed a lot in recent years).

Im not sure what to follow at the moment, but I agree that in the mean time its best to just be as good as possible.
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Old 12-16-2005, 06:13 PM   #34
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Originally posted by hedgehog

Im not sure what to follow at the moment, but I agree that in the mean time its best to just be as good as possible.

Yes, and if God is 'good', I think it's enough to just be a good person....
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Old 12-16-2005, 06:45 PM   #35
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Bullshit. I can only speak for European Green groups that are informed about the latest technological developments. Take the energy sector. Alternative energy like water power plants, wind etc. make up a bigger and bigger percentage of the energy we use here. That´s a positive development (if you´re not working for Shell). Green groups push for the 2.5-litre-car or other forms of transportation that are developed and ready to go and not that bad for environment. Other lobbies block that, the oil industry has nothing against blowing out 10 or 20 litres /mile.

I think you just did not take a proper look at their programs?

That said, no more derailing.
Really, are there any situations where these groups are willing to accept the use of GM organisms or Nuclear Power? What about the campaign against "Frankenstein Food" and the truly dogmatic faith in the Kyoto protocol regardless of the insignificant effect that it has on long term climate change.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:09 PM   #36
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Really, are there any situations where these groups are willing to accept the use of GM organisms or Nuclear Power?
I don´t think so.

That´s fine by me. I am totally against GM food and Nuclear Power Plants.

Not everyone is as obsessed (edit. no - not obsessed. Let´s say interested. Sounds more positive.. and less like a personal attack) as you regarding technology, industry and its great inventions. To disqualify that by saying these people are "spreading lies and fearmongering over technologies in a most reactionary manner" is lame.

Now back to the topic, can we? Or create another thread.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:29 PM   #37
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It is not lame, it is misrepresentation of technologies that can yield significant benefits and solve very real problems such as vitamin A deficiency or curb global carbon dioxide emissions with complete and utter rejection regardless of the merits, risks or studies. The recent moves against nanotechnology being a threat is a brilliant example, some groups claiming that it will result in a grey-goo situation and painting a doomsday picture that just is not feesible. The apocalyptic picture that is painted by some green groups to justify opposition to new technologies is fearmongering and it is just wrong.

I am unimpressed that human progress is being stifled by dogmatic fundamentalists - my point is that the threat to reason based investigation comes from both religious and secular quarters.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:40 PM   #38
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whatever Often, there are other (and better) solutions to problems than technological ones. I am unimpressed by what you think are solutions, because you´re projecting grabnd technological visions into the future while you have not the slightest knowledge of how nature will react to new technologies, see GM food which is restricted here (96% of the people against it, they are not interested, they do not want to buy it - not a real market, is it? and mind you, the greens here do not have 96% of the votes but 10%).

Back to the topic. Please.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:42 PM   #39
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The topic of this thread is "Who here is not a Christian? Describe your own beliefs".

Just a reminder.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:49 PM   #40
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No this is very much On Topic, it is about a belief system.

Now how nature will react to these changes, this is where risk analysis comes into the fray. We can understand and assess the environmental risks posed by technologies and correct for them. Of course there are those who think that nature is some sort of single living being that has to be kept in exact balance or it will be completely destroyed forever, I think that sort of dogma is very hard to shake.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:51 PM   #41
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a_wanderer, perhaps you could describe more how your beliefs (metaphysical ones, if any) affect your environmental beliefs?
on the other hand, if you are purely a materialist - there is nothing beyond the physical - why would you wish to support that which is harmful to the material world?
These questions are related to my topic, so feel free.
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars, i completely agree with your assertions thus far. how have your spiritual beliefs influenced you caring about the environment?
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Of course there are those who think that nature is some sort of single living being that has to be kept in exact balance or it will be completely destroyed forever, I think that sort of dogma is very hard to shake.
Yes it's known as the Gaia hypothesis. You're not a fan presumably.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:02 PM   #43
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I don't generally take people seriously when they slip over into that whole 'Gaia' thing, though I haven't seen Whenhiphopdrovethebigcars doing anything like that.

It's possible to worry about balances within nature without invoking 'Gaia'. In truth I think we could do our worst and life on Earth would continue merrily in some form... BUT whether it would be a situation that would allow us a nice life any longer, is debatable.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:04 PM   #44
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I think that Lovelock is very right on how we should adress carbon dioxide emissions. I do however think that the gaia hypothesis is predicated upon the assumption that the planet is self-correcting and imbues it with a finite cause if you will. My real issue comes when it gets philisophical and people start treating the world as an out of balance system that has to be corrected because it cannot face change. It is just plain wrong and if we look at the history of the planet we can see vast changes in biodiversity with mass extinctions and points of increased speciation. I also find it to be wrong when it brings mystical bullshit into the fray and people treat the planet with conciousness.

It also seems that the concept of animals being wiped out by other animals and there being a constant state of background extinction, new speciation and destruction of old and creation of new habitats is lost and the world is treated as static. I think the worldview shares a lot of fundamental philisophical similarities to creationism in that it views it as perfect and in balance when it is really a dynamic system that is always in a state of change for better or worse.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:12 PM   #45
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It is funny how some ideas catch on and others don't. For example Christianity 'caught on' whereas the heresy of Manicheasim didn't prevail.

In the 1930s many would have said free market capitalism was on the way out yet by the 1980's everyone wanted a piece of shareholding democracy and the writings of Adam Smith and Ayn Rand became fashionable again.
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