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Old 12-30-2005, 04:05 AM   #136
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Originally posted by indra
I believe the following:

No one can prove the existence of god (or supreme being, etc., etc.)

No one can disprove the existence of god (or supreme being, etc., etc.)

Hardcore atheism is every bit as obnoxious as hardcore, fundamentalist religion (of any persuasion).

No one belief system has "it" (whatever "it" eventually turns out to be) absolutely correct. None.

So given the above I have to classify myself as an agnostic. I tend to fall more towards the god (or whatever) does not exist, but it is interesting to ponder the idea that one or more does/do exist, so I do ponder the idea. I also have the feeling that if a god (or gods) does exist, it won't be at all what most people expect.
I really respect this position. While I happen to be some kind of theist; I've always, philosophically, admired agnosticism. I believe experiential proof is the only proof that can move individuals over the chasm of possible disbelief.
The author of that website falls into a Russell Regress when engaging in a conversation about the objective reality of morality.

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Old 01-01-2006, 07:08 AM   #137
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Originally posted by blueyedpoet

It seems as if I've kind of misread your point. From what you're saying here it sounds as if you adhere to the golden rule: do unto others what you have done to you (sic).

It is THE golden rule: No one religious organisation can claim to own it.....

I can only see it as common sense, and yet everyday it is violated by tossers all over the globe who claim to own the thing...

You were kinda bamboozling me when you start bringing future and present interests into the argument. Indeed, there are occasional circumstances where the golden rule must be broken or twisted in order to make things better in the future....

Yet I cannot concieve of a situation where an act like rape, could have a specifically positive effect, (for either the rapist or the victim) on what happens in the future...

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Old 01-01-2006, 07:12 AM   #138
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Originally posted by martha

And so if you've never had the experience...?

Then what?
Experience, in this sense, is not a something which everyone must actually have actually experienced, but merely witnessed or acknowledged....

Pain is something you don't need to experience first had to understand....
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:22 PM   #139
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Originally posted by BigMacPhisto
I'm an atheist through and through. And if anyone can call themselves a Christian after seeing all of this valid proof about why it's all a fraud:


Then, well, you lack sense. I do believe in the soul though. Not as a spiritual entity, but as the person we develop in our formulative years and never really change from once we reach adulthood.
That's a cool site

Some good points, that guy pretty much summed up how i feel about religeon ect.. but with a lot more research!
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:25 PM   #140
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Theism and agnosticism cannot be falsified, atheism on the other hand can be falsified (if we found irrefutable proof of God then atheism is disproven). Without any evidence at all to support the existence of the divine atheism is the only logical conclusion.

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