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Old 01-05-2006, 09:21 AM   #76
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Originally posted by indra


What part of intelligent design isn't science didn't you understand?

Apparently the same part of 'manners class' you didn' t understand. Oh, wait, 'manners' is apparently like ID - - not allowed in schools because it's so SCCCCAAAARRRRYYYY.

You are just belligerent - - get back to me when you learn to interact on a more intelligent level. I'll be holding my breath.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:32 AM   #77
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Originally posted by got2k9s



Apparently the same part of 'manners class' you didn' t understand. Oh, wait, 'manners' is apparently like ID - - not allowed in schools because it's so SCCCCAAAARRRRYYYY.

You are just belligerent - - get back to me when you learn to interact on a more intelligent level. I'll be holding my breath.
That was flat out rude AND avoiding the question.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:35 AM   #78
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Originally posted by indra


What part of intelligent design isn't science didn't you understand?
Science only excludes ID by definition in that it won't be considered, not that it is inferior.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:36 AM   #79
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
That is merely the end that the proponents wish to achieve, the elimination of naturalistic evolutionary biology from the curriculum to make it more compatiable with literalist beliefs.


This is just simply not true.
Saying this is the equivalent of "gun control advocates just want to take away all of our guns!" It's fatalistic propaganda.

And like LivLuv alluded to, why is it so unimaginable that God *created* the facts of science? Why are they viewed to be completely mutually exclusive?


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ID is literally the wedge tactic of the Discovery Institute. The ID movement is an effective stepping stone because you cannot bring creationism into the classroom, they know this through the failures of the 1980's, but ID is more honed, it lacks overt theist overtones and can be dressed up in scientific language. Science classes have to cover a lot of material, it reaches the point when the trouble of teaching evolution becomes too great and curriculums have to be modified to fit community standards, it extends across to the way that geology is taught (the proponents of flood geology) and cosmology (the origins of the universe). It isn't about letting people make up their own minds, it is about causing enough trouble to force schools to stop teaching material that offends a belief system.
Again, I assert that this theory of "it's too time consuming" flies in the face of REAL EDUCATION, which you definitely seem to be a proponent of. What gives?

"It would take too long" is not acceptable, but I'm glad you're honest.

And, IF ID was already taught in schools, wouldn't those who don't believe it want the "schools to stop teaching material that offends (their) belief system?" Absolutely.

And it IS about people being allowed to make a decision. Could you imagine sitting in history class and the teacher saying, "All right, now, class, we're studying the American Civil War today, but since there are time constraints and it's difficult to explain all of the details of opposing sides, we're just going to focus on "The North" - - we will not be talking at all about "The South."
I realize you are Australian, so it's just an example, but would YOU consider that an education or a joke?

[QUOTE} Again ID is not real science, it is not a recognised and accepted theory within the scientific community, it fails to explain all of the evidence as well as naturalistic evolutionary biology, given that a science class is about teaching children the accepted paradigm it makes little sense to introduce an unfounded hypothesis and grant it equal time.
[/QUOTE]

First of all, "not a recognized and accepted theory within the scientific community" is just not true!
Are you saying that anyone who believes ID is not a scientist? Because there ARE people who are scientists and believe in ID and/or are continually fascinated enough with it to continue looking into it. YOU just don't believe it. Many others don't as well, that's true. But for you guys to say "We speak for everyone" is a lot of things, including not only arrogant, but just plain false.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:36 AM   #80
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I used to be a christian but then I found FYM.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:37 AM   #81
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That was flat out rude AND avoiding the question.
Um, hi.

The question was rhetorical on her part, obviously.
So, no answer was required or requested.

AND, "rude?"
Yes, her answer was THAT too. Just because you agree with her doesn't mean you should avoid that fact.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:39 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
I used to be a christian but then I found FYM.
How do you define Christian? Just wondering . . .
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:43 AM   #83
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Can matter be accelerated to the speed of light - no, for that is a physical impossiblity imposed by constraints.

Can we create stable elements with really high atomic numbers - no we cannot because the physcial constraints.

Can we instantaneously transmit information from one place to another - no we cannot because there is a limit to the speed of information.

These are universal constraints that exist and act upon the energy and matter within the universe.
So, do you attribute the 'metaphorical' abilities of "the fates" with those of "matter" and "stable elements" and "the speed of information?"

I ask, because, the point I was trying to make is: utilizing the words "the fates" indicates something superior to all else . . . something bigger than us, bigger than that which is limited, therefore it can impact or affect the whole. Us, the world, etc.

But you just made the point that the things you mentioned ARE limited. Which to me, seems to support that they, too, are 'inferior to' "the fates."
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:44 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Science only excludes ID by definition in that it won't be considered, not that it is inferior.


science excludes ID because ID isn't science. it has no scientific credibility, thus it is inferior.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:45 AM   #85
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Originally posted by Irvine511


but i thought that with god anything is possible.


With GOD, it is.

Just because something hasn't happened, does that mean it couldn't? No. Not necessarily.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:45 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
I used to be a christian but then I found FYM.


i hear that.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:47 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i hear that.

Irvine, I ask the same question of you. What do you mean by Christian? How do you define it?

Honest question, here . . .
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:50 AM   #88
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Originally posted by got2k9s



Irvine, I ask the same question of you. What do you mean by Christian? How do you define it?

Honest question, here . . .


i really don't know anymore.

i used to think i had an idea, but in here, it's a definition of convenience.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:55 AM   #89
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Originally posted by Tennis05
I can't accept that science can explain the people I love. I can't boil them down to simple chemicals. I believe that is one place where I can find God.

i was raised by catholics.( my parents- anyone who had parents who were sorta "old school" knows about what happens when your not quiet in church.when ya get home-

the nuns when they were in school or the priests if they went to catholic school would mess em up big time! I have an aunt who was thrown down some stairs by a nun!)

.the last sacrament i made was my 1st holy communion.
I consider myself a christian but not a born again one...or anything charismatic

catholic churches welcome christians into thier churches wholeheartedly now

its an AWESOME expirience when you have good and glorious expiriences with your family at church and feel good about it and feel that holy feeling

but sometimes christians can really suck -
the christian bros. society or whatever it was where they enslaved kids - they took them from ireland and UK and sent them to australia- because thier parents couldnt afford food or they were WWII orphans or summat
or the magdeline laundries-
stuff like that
so much abuse
they did it in the name of god.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:00 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by carrieluvv



i was raised by catholics.( my parents- anyone who had parents who were sorta "old school" knows about what happens when your not quiet in church.when ya get home-

the nuns when they were in school or the priests if they went to catholic school would mess em up big time! I have an aunt who was thrown down some stairs by a nun!)

.the last sacrament i made was my 1st holy communion.
I consider myself a christian but not a born again one...or anything charismatic

catholic churches welcome christians into thier churches wholeheartedly now

its an AWESOME expirience when you have good and glorious expiriences with your family at church and feel good about it and feel that holy feeling

but sometimes christians can really suck -
the christian bros. society or whatever it was where they enslaved kids - they took them from ireland and UK and sent them to australia-
or the magedeline laundries-
stuff like that
they did it in the name of god.
Carrie, SO MUCH BAD STUFF is "done in the name of God."
That doesn't mean God would want it, though.

It can be a VERY BAD THING to allow other people's actions to dictate for you YOUR beliefs. The most recent scandal with many priests (not all!) in the Catholic church is just ONE example.

It's not "other people" that = God. It's God. And the Christ of Christianity.

YES, many "Christians," I wish would stop claiming to be one! ha ha!

But that doesn't change GOD or CHRIST or what they mean to the faith.

Does that make sense?
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