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Old 01-04-2006, 09:48 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Irvine511


um, i'm going to assume that you were talking to me, and i'm going to say that we've been through the ID debate here on FYM a million times and i'm very certain in both my facts and my convictions.

real intellectuals not only search, but they understand the rules of the discipline in which they are studying -- science deals with exactly that which you can feel with your fingers, that which you can test, quantify, verify, or falsify.

you cannot do such things with the supernatural. hence, it is not fit for a science class. take it to a theology or philosophy class, but do not destroy science standards with such things.

EXACTLY!!!
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:48 PM   #62
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A_Wanderer, how is it so easy for you to believe in 'the fates,' then, if they are so very intangible?
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:50 PM   #63
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Originally posted by got2k9s
Irvine, read the book.

Written by a guy who was an athiest, who learned how to be one in BIOLOGY CLASS.

You know, with all those facts and things you can touch.

Read the book and see how it addresses your beliefs.
It's a very interesting read . . . you know, for an intellectual.

i think you're missing the point entirely.

no one i saying that you're a fool to believe in intelligent design. i think livluv makes a great post. but you are a fool if you believe intelligent design is science or deserves to be even mentioned in the same sentence as evolution. it is pseudoscience, or junk science.

also, the book's understanding of ID is (at least according to the amazon editors .. and remember, those reviews are designed to maek the book appealing to it's intended audience so you will buy it) much different than that of the stripe that has been brought in front of schoolboards and is propagated by the Religious Right.
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:57 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s
A_Wanderer, how is it so easy for you to believe in 'the fates,' then, if they are so very intangible?
I don't believe in fates and furies in a literalist sense or any form of karmic retributon. If I ever speak of them it would be metaphorically.
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:58 PM   #65
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Creationism, you mean?

Well, let's see . . . ID was ruled to be unacceptable in the public school system on the idea that it was just creationism with a different name, so what is the difference? The judge didn't see one.

AND, I know, that SCARY, SCARY "Religious Right" - - those people who haven't said, "Take evolution out of the schools," but instead want an alternative theory taught as well, *shudder* - - what might the world come to if those aspiring to learn aren't just taught one idea? What if they were forced to look into it themselves and form their own idea

What might the world come to?
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:59 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I don't believe in fates and furies in a literalist sense or any form of karmic retributon. If I ever speak of them it would be metaphorically.
Symbolic of what, though?
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:02 PM   #67
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I think it would come to a point where it becomes untenable to place origins and evolution in the biology curriculum because equal time rules and parent group pressures mean it's just not worth the effort.
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:05 PM   #68
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think it would come to a point where it becomes untenable to place origins and evolution in the biology curriculum because equal time rules and parent group pressures mean it's just not worth the effort.
Now, that beats all.

So, 'too much trouble' shoud dictate education?
Not the lofty ideal of TRUE education - - the elitist rantings from earlier - - are you the same person?

Besides, origins and evolution is ALREADY in the biology curriculum - - what do you mean?
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:05 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s


Symbolic of what, though?
A means of emphasising important events maybe?

All that exists is energy and energy condensate spread across various dimensions interacting within the constraints of physical constants. Nothing supernatural about it.
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:08 PM   #70
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
A means of emphasising important events maybe?

All that exists is energy and energy condensate spread across various dimensions interacting within the constraints of physical constants. Nothing supernatural about it.
All this talk of 'constraints' makes me think of 'limitations,' which seems to fly in the face of what one might mean when trying to metaphorically, even, describe something attributable to something like "the fates," even as a figure-of-speech.
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s


Now, that beats all.

So, 'too much trouble' shoud dictate education?
Not the lofty ideal of TRUE education - - the elitist rantings from earlier - - are you the same person?

Besides, origins and evolution is ALREADY in the biology curriculum - - what do you mean?
That is merely the end that the proponents wish to achieve, the elimination of naturalistic evolutionary biology from the curriculum to make it more compatiable with literalist beliefs. ID is literally the wedge tactic of the Discovery Institute. The ID movement is an effective stepping stone because you cannot bring creationism into the classroom, they know this through the failures of the 1980's, but ID is more honed, it lacks overt theist overtones and can be dressed up in scientific language. Science classes have to cover a lot of material, it reaches the point when the trouble of teaching evolution becomes too great and curriculums have to be modified to fit community standards, it extends across to the way that geology is taught (the proponents of flood geology) and cosmology (the origins of the universe). It isn't about letting people make up their own minds, it is about causing enough trouble to force schools to stop teaching material that offends a belief system.

Again ID is not real science, it is not a recognised and accepted theory within the scientific community, it fails to explain all of the evidence as well as naturalistic evolutionary biology, given that a science class is about teaching children the accepted paradigm it makes little sense to introduce an unfounded hypothesis and grant it equal time.
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:25 PM   #72
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Originally posted by got2k9s


All this talk of 'constraints' makes me think of 'limitations,' which seems to fly in the face of what one might mean when trying to metaphorically, even, describe something attributable to something like "the fates," even as a figure-of-speech.
Can matter be accelerated to the speed of light - no, for that is a physical impossiblity imposed by constraints.

Can we create stable elements with really high atomic numbers - no we cannot because the physcial constraints.

Can we instantaneously transmit information from one place to another - no we cannot because there is a limit to the speed of information.

These are universal constraints that exist and act upon the energy and matter within the universe.
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Old 01-04-2006, 10:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Can matter be accelerated to the speed of light - no, for that is a physical impossiblity imposed by constraints.

Can we create stable elements with really high atomic numbers - no we cannot because the physcial constraints.

Can we instantaneously transmit information from one place to another - no we cannot because there is a limit to the speed of information.

These are universal constraints that exist and act upon the energy and matter within the universe.


but i thought that with god anything is possible.

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Old 01-04-2006, 11:56 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s
Creationism, you mean?

Well, let's see . . . ID was ruled to be unacceptable in the public school system on the idea that it was just creationism with a different name, so what is the difference? The judge didn't see one.

AND, I know, that SCARY, SCARY "Religious Right" - - those people who haven't said, "Take evolution out of the schools," but instead want an alternative theory taught as well, *shudder* - - what might the world come to if those aspiring to learn aren't just taught one idea? What if they were forced to look into it themselves and form their own idea

What might the world come to?
What part of intelligent design isn't science didn't you understand?
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Old 01-05-2006, 02:46 AM   #75
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Re: Who Here is a Christian? bLinD fAiTh rEbeLs :)

Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
I've search all over this world
and that rebel from Nazareth shines truth!

That is what I believe.

*simple faith*


Since I have never really responded to the original post.......

I'm glad you have found something that you believe in in such a way, the iron horse.


=====
=====

As for everyone else....
Interesting discussions, mostly.
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