Who Here is a Christian? bLinD fAiTh rEbeLs :) - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-04-2006, 12:49 PM   #46
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Does celebrating Christmas make you a Christian?

I've celebrated Purim. Does that make me Jewish?


no. you identify as christian. you can celebrate whatever you want while retaining your identity. the vast, vast majority of people who celebrate christmas even in it's most secular form identify as christian. the identity has meaning, whereas a Jewish identity has no meaning for you, except in an intellectual or oppositional context.



Quote:
You're just rehashing your old cliches on Christianity and politics.

All of which have nothing to do with iron horse's original statement.

cliches? hardly.

it has everything to do with the current state of American politics and the monolithic cultural impact of christianity -- not to mention the irony of christians who claim both majority status and persecuted minority status whenever things like "intelligent design" are tossed out of the classroom -- that essentially negates whatever claims to "rebel" status originally claimed by the starter of this thread.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:27 PM   #47
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

the vast, vast majority of people who celebrate christmas even in it's most secular form identify as christian. the identity has meaning, whereas a Jewish identity has no meaning for you, except in an intellectual or oppositional context.

I would say that those who celebrate Christmas and identify themselves as a Christian but do not actively participate in the Christian faith/ideals/precepts, etc. are doing so on a more "cultural" basis than anything.

Cultural as in "Well, I'm not a Muslim and I do think that maybe there's probably a God up there," kind of thing.

More the same way that CULTURALLY there are Jews who are not exactly "practicing" Jews.


Quote:
. . . not to mention the irony of christians who claim both majority status and persecuted minority status whenever things like "intelligent design" are tossed out of the classroom -- that essentially negates whatever claims to "rebel" status originally claimed by the starter of this thread.
Ironically, though, and contrary to your claim above, what I have heard is the claim that it's a MAJORITY opinion that is being left out of the classroom by not allowing 'intelligent design' to be taught, not a minority one.

If it's true that "Christians are protected," then why ISN'T and why HASN'T 'intelligent design' been taught in schools, and instead, believers of Darwinism fight to 'evolution' taught in schools?

The 'intelligent design' debate is a prime example to disprove your notion of the protected status of Christians in the U.S.

And as far as the "rebel" status, iron horse was talking about Jesus himself, not "Christianity."

There is no doubt that Jesus was a rebel.

Asserting that He was 'King of the Jews?!'
Are you kidding me?
THAT was what got him crucified. Those in government and even "religious leaders" FEARED Him. So, they crucified Him.

Jesus WAS a rebel for His time and in His time. No doubt about it.

Edit/addition - - the content of iron horse's post referred to Jesus as a rebel, but now I realize that the thread title refers to Christians as rebels.

And to that, I would say that, I believe it goes against human nature to HAVE blind faith, though I really don't like the word "blind" associated with faith. It does imply a negativity.
But I would say that it's a leap to have it. A rebellion against our nature.
__________________

__________________
got2k9s is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:42 PM   #48
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:42 AM
The intelligent design "debate" is about securing educational standards in schools and ensuring that students are in the best position to suceed later on. If you are taught all through high school that cell level processes are all irreducibly complex and that they are by definition formed by a creator then you will be at serious disadvantage to other students at university level biology.

It doesn't matter what the majority of people want because majority opinion does not change facts and that is what science is built off. The iconoclasts who upset the dominant paradigm with the ideas that explain the evidence best will generally come out on top in scientific debate, the intelligent design hypothesis however is built from wishful thinking and has not been able to demonstrate itself in the world of peer reviewed scientific discourse.

Science is inherently undemocratic
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:51 PM   #49
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
My, aren't you the intellectual elitist?

Should I use my GOD-GIVEN reasoning skills to deduce that you are, in fact, calling those who believe in 'intelligent design' ignorant fools?

'Cause that's what I hear, and I must disagree. Sorry.
__________________
got2k9s is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:56 PM   #50
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:42 AM
You have a right to an opinion same as anyone else but that doesn't change facts. It doesn't stop bacterial resistance developing, procreation with variation or wipe out the fossil record.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:01 PM   #51
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Oh, I believe in absolute truth - - but I take issue with the fact that your responses reek with the air of intellectual superiority.
__________________
got2k9s is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:14 PM   #52
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 05:42 PM
Just a question...What does "intelligent design" bring to scientific knowledge? What, exactly does it add to the study of biology for example?

I honestly can't think of anything. I can see where it could well be studied in religion or philosophy class, but in hard science classes it has nothing at all to add.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:15 PM   #53
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s
My, aren't you the intellectual elitist?

Should I use my GOD-GIVEN reasoning skills to deduce that you are, in fact, calling those who believe in 'intelligent design' ignorant fools?

'Cause that's what I hear, and I must disagree. Sorry.


yes. i'll say that. though i'd modify it -- i'd say those who believe in the kind of intelligent design made political by specific groups are being willfully ignorant. it's the worst kind of thinking -- "gosh, this stuff is hard to understand, let's just stop thinking right now and admit defeat."

A_W knows his stuff on this.

i'm sorry if facts and logic and reasoning are threatening or elitist, but so be it.

he also answered your earlier post to me as well as i could have, so i feel no need to revisit it.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:23 PM   #54
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra
Just a question...What does "intelligent design" bring to scientific knowledge? What, exactly does it add to the study of biology for example?

I honestly can't think of anything. I can see where it could well be studied in religion or philosophy class, but in hard science classes it has nothing at all to add.
As a Christian, my opinion is absolutely nothing I've read the Creation story (and many other creation stories) in and out and 1) the original Hebrew wording basically supports the theory of evolution and 2) that aside, the Christian Creation story deals with defining the nature of relationships; it is not and was never meant to be taken as fact that supercedes the realm of science. I'm disappointed that most of my Christian compatriots can't, or won't let themselves, see this. Why is it so difficult to believe in both? Evolution is undeniable (to a certain extent at least).
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:27 PM   #55
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Coward.

There was plenty more to discuss in my response to you that he didn't even address.

Or are you just taking the easy way out? See, you must believe in 'intelligent design' after all. *sarcasm*

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031...lance&n=283155 then get back to me.

Oh, and a great synopsis is under the "Editorial Review" section on this site, just scroll down a bit.

Whatsa matter? Scared? Worried that all of your smarty-pants pre-conceived notions and false comfort of superiority will be shattered? Just flat-out afraid to consider something you can't feel with your fingers?

Real intellectuals search before deciding.

And I say this with a hug attached, sincerely.
I prod with love.
__________________
got2k9s is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:33 PM   #56
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by got2k9s
Coward.

There was plenty more to discuss in my response to you that he didn't even address.

Or are you just taking the easy way out? See, you must believe in 'intelligent design' after all. *sarcasm*

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031...lance&n=283155 then get back to me.

Oh, and a great synopsis is under the "Editorial Review" section on this site, just scroll down a bit.

Whatsa matter? Scared? Worried that all of your smarty-pants pre-conceived notions and false comfort of superiority will be shattered? Just flat-out afraid to consider something you can't feel with your fingers?

Real intellectuals search before deciding.

And I say this with a hug attached, sincerely.
I prod with love.


um, i'm going to assume that you were talking to me, and i'm going to say that we've been through the ID debate here on FYM a million times and i'm very certain in both my facts and my convictions.

real intellectuals not only search, but they understand the rules of the discipline in which they are studying -- science deals with exactly that which you can feel with your fingers, that which you can test, quantify, verify, or falsify.

you cannot do such things with the supernatural. hence, it is not fit for a science class. take it to a theology or philosophy class, but do not destroy science standards with such things.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:41 PM   #57
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:42 AM
Does the search for evidence lead to a conclusion or does the conclusion lead you to evidence?
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:42 PM   #58
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Irvine, read the book.

Written by a guy who was an athiest, who learned how to be one in BIOLOGY CLASS.

You know, with all those facts and things you can touch.

Read the book and see how it addresses your beliefs.
It's a very interesting read . . . you know, for an intellectual.
__________________
got2k9s is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:45 PM   #59
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:42 AM
Since you have read the book can you explain how people learn how to be athiests in biology classes?
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 01-04-2006, 09:47 PM   #60
The Fly
 
got2k9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: at a place called Vertigo
Posts: 184
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Since you have read the book can you explain how people learn how to be athiests in biology classes?

It was a joke. You know, we idiot peons have a sense of humor, but one undoubtedly, not quite as EVOLVED as yours.
__________________

__________________
got2k9s is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com