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Old 05-10-2005, 10:20 AM   #46
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan
I dont think govt should ENFORCE MORALITY
You prefer an immoral society?
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Old 05-10-2005, 10:23 AM   #47
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i'd prefer an ethical society.
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Old 05-10-2005, 10:43 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
You prefer an immoral society?
Some people's definitions of a "moral society" sound like hell.

So yeah...I guess we'd prefer an "immoral society" where people can live according to their own morality, rather than a "moral society" where government dictates its own morality onto people.

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Old 05-10-2005, 12:19 PM   #49
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You prefer an immoral society?
No. But I'm skeptical of the *ability* of the government to enforce morality. People tend to follow their own rules and desires. It's pretty tough to mandate a moral society.
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:21 PM   #50
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No. But I'm skeptical of the *ability* of the government to enforce morality.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:24 PM   #51
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People tend to follow their own rules and desires.
People do what is right in their own eyes. This has never changed.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:28 PM   #52
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What's "moral" for some is "immoral" for others.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:40 PM   #53
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People do what is right in their own eyes. This has never changed.
That´s exactly why the government doesn´t have the right to suggest a certain moral standard. Only legislation in the democratic process does have that right when passing laws the society as a whole agrees on.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:45 PM   #54
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That´s exactly why the government doesn´t have the right to suggest a certain moral standard. Only legislation in the democratic process does have that right when passing laws the society as a whole agrees on.
It seems that your two statements contradict each other.

Legislation is government action.

And I'm not sure we are 100% on board with a "might makes right" (legislation passed by a majority) model for establishing morality.
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:00 PM   #55
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People do what is right in their own eyes. This has never changed.
That's right. That's why I'm not sure legislation of morality would work. Would it really stop immorality?
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Old 05-10-2005, 10:52 PM   #56
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That's right. That's why I'm not sure legislation of morality would work. Would it really stop immorality?
Going back to history, if morality had no business in legislation, it would hardly make sense to oppose slavery. In fact, the popular argument at the time was that it was immoral and condradicting with Judeo-Christian principles. Would it stop immorality? Not ultimately, but it's progress. For example, it spares law-abiding tax payers big bucks if we go after club drugs rather than legalize them and place the burden on tax payers to treat them as a result of their poor decisions.
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Old 05-10-2005, 11:57 PM   #57
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


That´s exactly why the government doesn´t have the right to suggest a certain moral standard. Only legislation in the democratic process does have that right when passing laws the society as a whole agrees on.
Then would you agree when gay marriage is put to the people and the majority vote against it?

I agree with NB, might makes right does not guarantee fair laws, especially on matters of morality.
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:14 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


It seems that your two statements contradict each other.

Legislation is government action.

And I'm not sure we are 100% on board with a "might makes right" (legislation passed by a majority) model for establishing morality.
Yes OK I said it in simple terms, thought you get what I meant, maybe I didn´t express myself clear enough.

What I wanted to say is

1. There are moral stadards that benefit society. Alo not killing or not hurting or not raping anyone is a moral standard. if you kill someone, you shall be punished, thats what society and laws say in most countries. So there are moral values, defined by society, and society has the right to create moral values.

2. However, the government has no right to impose its moral values on society. Consider issues like the discussion about gay rights. Who would the government be to say "Being gay is morally wrong and therefore illegal". Same should apply for religious preference etc.

Better?
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:17 AM   #59
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Then would you agree when gay marriage is put to the people and the majority vote against it?
No I wouldn´t, see above. With "passing laws the society as a whole agress on", I was mainly referring to criminal action which is perceived as morally wrong.
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:42 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


an immoral society?
Its OK with me...

but I have no preference of moral or immoral society.

Obviousy there would be laws for murder, rape or theft and things like that..
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