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Old 02-16-2005, 07:36 PM   #61
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choice
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Old 02-16-2005, 09:25 PM   #62
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I do have a question to pro-choicers, and I expect a meaningful discussion to result from it.

How pro-choice are you?

Hillary Clinton-ish (Tragic choice for many, many women, let's work on making the number a minimum)

or

Howard Dean-ish (Abortion is NONE of the government's business)

or somewhere in between?

Is this something to be concerned about, or should we even care at all?
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Old 02-16-2005, 09:33 PM   #63
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choice

Glad to see evervone on best behaviour.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:02 PM   #64
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Pro choice but i don`t like abortion.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:36 PM   #65
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From The New York Times

For Democrats, Rethinking Abortion Runs Risks
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: February 16, 2005


WASHINGTON, Feb. 15 - In their search for middle ground on the subject of abortion, Democrats are encountering a mixture of resistance and retreat from abortion rights advocates in their own party.

Since its defeats in the November elections, nothing has put the fractured soul of the Democratic Party on display more vividly than abortion. Party leaders, including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and the new chairman, Howard Dean, have repeatedly signaled an effort to recalibrate the party's thinking about new restrictions on abortion.

Adding to that, Congressional Democrats named a professed opponent of abortion rights, Harry Reid of Nevada, as the leader in the Senate. Some Democrats supported another abortion opponent, Timothy J. Roemer, for the party's chairmanship.

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee has actively recruited at least two abortion opponents to run for the Senate in 2006. And perhaps most symbolically, the party is seeking to enlist Robert P. Casey Jr., Pennsylvania's treasurer, to challenge Senator Rick Santorum, a stalwart foe of abortion rights.

Mr. Casey is the son of former Gov. Bob Casey, a hero to abortion opponents inside and outside the Democratic Party. After trying unsuccessfully to have the party's 1992 platform state that Democrats did not support "abortion on demand," Governor Casey denounced the party for refusing to let him speak at its convention in New York on behalf of other Democrats who shared his views.

In contrast, the younger Mr. Casey said that Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, chairman of the party's senatorial campaign committee, had encouraged him to run as an opponent of abortion rights.

"He was very welcoming and very candid about the party's need to speak for a broad section of Americans," Mr. Casey said in an interview.

But Mr. Schumer's overture has roiled party loyalists who remain unyielding in their support for abortion rights, exposing a deepening rift in the party. Abortion rights groups that are major financial donors to Democratic campaigns say they may fight Mr. Casey in a primary with a candidate who shares their beliefs.

Karen White, political director of Emily's List, a group that raises money for female candidates who support abortion rights, said the group was "very excited" about possibly backing an abortion rights supporter, Barbara Hafer, a former Pennsylvania treasurer.

Emily's List and other groups have also sounded alarms about the direction the party leadership is taking over all. During the search for a national Democratic chairman, Ms. White posted a rallying cry on the group's Web site: "We fought like mad to beat back the Republicans. Little did we know that we would have just as much to fear from some within the Democratic Party who seem to be using choice as a scapegoat for our top-of-the-ticket losses."

Emily's List is circulating a study it commissioned by the pollster Mark Mellman stating that abortion "was not a factor in voters' decision-making" in the November elections.

Ann Stone, president of Republicans for Choice, an abortion rights group, said her organization's members had not been re-examining their positions, as their Democratic counterparts have. Ms. Stone added a cautionary note that cut across each party's support base.

"The Democrats have to be very careful about this because they could end up undercutting themselves with the donor base," Ms. Stone said. "The pro-choice donors in both parties tend to be the more wealthy."

Mr. Schumer, for his part, said abortion rights groups should worry about Republicans, not Democrats, if they want to preserve Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision establishing a constitutional right to abortion. "What we find is that even the most pro-choice Republican senators just vote down the line for judges that are chomping at the bit to overturn Roe," he said.

Another large abortion rights group, Naral Pro-Choice, is reversing course, saying it will drop its opposition to the proposed Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act, a bill that would require doctors to offer anesthetic for the fetuses of women seeking abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy.

Nancy Keenan, president of Naral Pro-Choice, said the organization was saving its ammunition to fight judicial nominees who might overturn Roe v. Wade. "We are standing strong in the next Supreme Court battle," Ms. Keenan said.

There are "bigger issues to fight," she added, "to draw attention to the broader issue of reproductive health." For example, in this week's edition of the conservative Weekly Standard, Naral placed an advertisement asking abortion rights groups to "please, help us prevent abortions" by increasing access to birth control.

But Carol Tobias, political director for the National Right to Life Foundation, dismissed the invitation as an effort "to get the pro-life movement into a debate over birth control," on which her organization takes no position. Ms. Tobias called the Democrats' talk "pulling the wool over the eyes of voters."

Still, Senator Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, a champion of abortion opponents and the sponsor of the fetal-pain bill, said he was watching the Democrats' steps with great interest. "Just the language that allows for the Democrats to open up and even encourage people to run for office as a pro-life candidate is an enormously positive development for me," Mr. Brownback said, adding that Naral's decision not to oppose his fetal-pain bill made him much more optimistic about its passage.

But abortion rights advocates warn of a bigger revolt within the party if its members start compromising on new abortion restrictions like parental notification laws or the fetal-pain bill. Karen Pearl, interim president of Planned Parenthood, said some of her allies were saying that "to the degree that the Democrats move away from choice, that could be the real birth of a third-party movement."

But Ms. Pearl added, "When the day is done, I don't believe they will backslide," in part because of the importance of abortion rights advocates to the party's base of activists and contributors.

In a New York Times poll last month, 36 percent of respondents said abortions should be generally available, 35 percent said the procedure should be available but under stricter limits, and 26 percent said abortions should not be permitted.

The financial balance sheet is much more one-sided. Single-issue abortion rights groups gave over $1.4 million in the 2004 elections to candidates for national office, more than twice as much as the total from groups opposed to abortion rights, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. In addition, Emily's List raised $34 million for female candidates who support abortion rights, according to the center. By comparison, the National Right to Life Committee, the largest donor opposed to abortion rights, raised about $1.7 million.

Senator Reid said that he welcomed the new "emphasis on recognizing the diversity of the party." He added, "We have had a lot of pro-life Democrats, but the pro-choice folk haven't reached out to them and haven't protected them."

He acknowledged some complaints from abortion rights groups about the party's shifting rhetoric. "They have to keep their folks geared up, just like people who work for more highways," Mr. Reid said. "That is what they do, just like the pro-life groups."
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:39 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I do have a question to pro-choicers, and I expect a meaningful discussion to result from it.

How pro-choice are you?

Hillary Clinton-ish (Tragic choice for many, many women, let's work on making the number a minimum)

or

Howard Dean-ish (Abortion is NONE of the government's business)

or somewhere in between?

Is this something to be concerned about, or should we even care at all?
I don't see that those two views are all that different. I don't think the government (or the neighbors, or anyone else) has the right to dictate whether or not an individual woman has an abortion. However, if people are uncomfortable with abortions, they should try to make sure alternatives to abortion and serious birth control are readily and cheaply available. Open, honest, and BLUNT sex education is also very important to reduce the number of unintended and unwanted pregnancies. I think most women who know and have access to the options would much rather take birth control than have an abortion. Let's face it, an abortion isn't like getting a manicure. But accessible (which also means affordable or even free) birth control is absolutely key to reducing the number of abortions.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:44 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I do have a question to pro-choicers, and I expect a meaningful discussion to result from it.

How pro-choice are you?

Hillary Clinton-ish (Tragic choice for many, many women, let's work on making the number a minimum)

or

Howard Dean-ish (Abortion is NONE of the government's business)

or somewhere in between?

Is this something to be concerned about, or should we even care at all?
I agree that it's not the government's business if a woman has an abortion-that's for her and her doctor to deal with, and her family, if she wishes for them to be involved. I wouldn't like the idea of the government intruding on my personal life like that-their job is to deal with issues that affect this entire country as a whole, and that affect the world in general, not to deal with an issue that only I would have to experience.

That said, I do think that, if people really want abortion to stop ('cause while I do support a woman's right to choose to have one if she wants to, I also think a lot of the situations that lead women to have abortions are very tragic, sad ones), they've got to realize flat out banning it will not work. Instead, they need to focus on the problems that lead to women having abortions in the first place and fix those. Once those problems are taken care of, you will see the number of abortions decrease significantly, I'm sure of it.

Angela
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:51 PM   #68
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House panel approves measure to make abortion a felony

BRAD PERRIELLO

Associated Press

PIERRE, S.D. - Abortion should be a crime in South Dakota if states are given the right to outlaw the medical procedure, a House panel recommended Friday.

The State Affairs Committee unanimously approved HB1249, which would make it a felony to do abortions if Roe v. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, is overturned. The bill would allow exceptions in cases where a pregnant woman's life is at risk.

Those who do abortions could face up to two years in prison and a $2,000 fine.

The committee changed the bill to remove a provision that would have made it a crime to advise women to seek abortions.

Rep. Joel Dykstra, R-Canton, the bill's prime sponsor, said it is designed to protect the rights of fetuses in case states are given the right to regulate abortion.

Rachel Hansen of the South Dakota Right to Life Committee, which helped draft the bill, said abortion rights supporters are gearing up for a fight in case the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade.

"In South Dakota, House Bill 1249 would throw a monkey wrench right in the middle of that strategy," Hansen said.

Rob Regier of the South Dakota Family Policy Council urged the committee to pass the bill.

"Send a message that South Dakota is more than just prepared to protect the unborn, but eager to," Regier said.

Kate Looby of Planned Parenthood said the bill is one of the most extreme measures she has seen. The measure would tie physicians' hands and ignore women's ability to make decisions for themselves, she said.

"Making abortion illegal never has and never will stop women from having abortions," Looby said, urging the committee to reject the bill.

Jennifer Ring of the American Civil Liberties Union said the bill makes no provisions for abortions in cases where a woman's health is at risk or a fetus develops a potentially fatal condition. In such cases, women would be forced to allow the pregnancy to develop until it threatens their lives, Ring said.

HB1249 goes now to the House floor.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:57 PM   #69
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Riiiiiiggggghhht, 'cause that's totally gonna solve the problem.

Don't agree with that at all .

Angela
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:59 PM   #70
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Good, well-thought responses so far. Let's keep this discussion positive.
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:39 PM   #71
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Good, well-thought responses so far. Let's keep this discussion positive.
. Works for me.

Angela
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Old 02-17-2005, 03:11 AM   #72
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life.
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no guns.

that's fym for me done for the next 6 months.
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Old 02-17-2005, 04:43 AM   #73
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I agree with what Indra and Moonlit_Angel have said.
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Old 02-17-2005, 06:24 AM   #74
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Pro-choice

Even though I believe life begins at conception, I cannot tell a woman what to do. But sometimes I wish they'd go for other options (ie: adoption)
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Old 02-17-2005, 06:37 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Howard Dean-ish (Abortion is NONE of the government's business)

That one, an abortionis no-ones business but those involved. If you don't want one, don't have one, if you do it should be your choice.
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