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Old 09-29-2005, 06:10 AM   #1
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Where's an Independent to go?

Having absolute personal contempt for the Republican party as it rules right now and being increasingly disappointed with the lack of leaders and vision from the Democrats, do I?

1. Vote Democrat, even though I no longer feel the present
crop of Democrats has earned my vote or interest, or
doesn't have the balls or ideas to actually make
a difference. I'm starting to consider them an equal party
of soundbites. Do I vote for what I consider to be the lesser
of the two evils?
2. Do I vote for a third, fourth or fifth party even though I
consider it a practical throwing away of my vote and
haven't really found a third party that speaks to my concerns?
3. Do I decline to participate? Unlike Irvine, I consider an
informed refusal to vote a legitimate form of political protest
or commentary which still allows me to mouth off anyway.
However, I am inclined to feel a certain amount of
responsibility if I don't vote and another disaster (to my
way of thinking) comes in to power.

I'm not asking advice on what to do. I'll come to that decision on my own. What I'm asking is how to feel good about my vote when I have less and less trust in the political process.

I'd like to hear from anyone who is voting "for" a party or a potential candidate and not just against the other.
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:41 AM   #2
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Run yourself.
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:31 AM   #3
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I'm eligible. But not qualifed. I know my limitations.
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Old 09-29-2005, 02:50 PM   #4
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The last two elections I voted for Nader, and did so because I felt he actually had a platform that was good for America, not just the usual fringe issues that Reps and Dems use to herd the flock. If either party put up a leader with a vision and an ability to get the job done, they'd have my vote, regardless of party affiliation. But the Reps, somehow I will never understand, sold W, and the Dems could not, somehow I will never understand, put forth a coherent enough vision to beat him.
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Old 09-29-2005, 03:35 PM   #5
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Re: Where's an Independent to go?

Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
What I'm asking is how to feel good about my vote when I have less and less trust in the political process.
Let me know if you figure it out.

I've never once "felt good about my vote" in all the years I've been voting, and make voting decisions solely on a triage basis at this point.
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Old 09-29-2005, 04:19 PM   #6
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i don't think you only have one option; i think there are several.

in an ideal world, work to get better candidates on the ballots, and this is probably only possible, at first, at the local level. but it starts somewhere, and i do put credence in the aphorism, paraphrased, "never doubt the ability of a small group of dedicated individuals to change the world; after all, it is the only thing that ever has."

but, in the meantime, since i do believe that one simply must vote (or else one relinquishes the right to complain and protest, i don't see non-participation as a legitimate option and is, in my opinion, disrespectful for the people who have died and continue to die for that simple right), then one must vote for the lesser of two evils.
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Old 09-29-2005, 06:17 PM   #7
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I'm in the same boat as you are, BonosSaint.


At the moment, I'm leaning slightly more to one side, but only slightly. Feeling good about voting? I wouldn't worry about that. Just make the best decision you can at the time.

Unfortunately, I think many people are in your shoes, or our shoes. I am dissapointed in the leadership of our country in that regard. But I guess you need to find someone who you can support, or just make the best decision when the time comes.
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:17 PM   #8
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I'm in the same predicatment. I voted for Kerry last year, but without feeling. I felt like I was voting for the lesser of two evils, not for someone good. It doesn't seem like there is anyone I really like out there, or am comfortable with. Bummer............
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:36 PM   #9
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Thanks for your answers. I'll vote, but I still disagree some with Irvine on deliberate nonparticipation being unpatriotic. Sometimes neither party deserves my vote and I couldn't bring myself to believe either candidate was particularly good for the country or the state or the county. I've voted Green, Socialist, Communist, Independent and some other party I forget the name of--Reform party or something. I didn't make those votes frivilously, but they were meant as a protest vote.

I'm not politically active, although I have been in the past and have become so disillusioned. Every candidate is the second coming. But I don't think the inability to support a candidate in all good conscience negates my right to protest. There are other ways someone can participate in making social change than the political process. I did not disrespect those who died for my rights those times I chose not to vote. Sometimes I think the poor slate of candidates is infinitely more disrespectful to their memory.

I'll vote, but with less hope than I've had in the past. You're right, For Honor. I guess I don't have to feel good about it. And then worry about making my voice heard in other ways.

I seem to be in good company.
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Thanks for your answers. I'll vote, but I still disagree some with Irvine on deliberate nonparticipation being unpatriotic.


just to clarify -- i don't view voting as patriotic or unpatriotic. i think that the act of voting, because of all those who have died trying to get the right to vote not just in the US but around the world, is an act of respect as well as an act of faith in humanity and our ability to govern ourselves.

sorry to get sentimental.
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:58 PM   #11
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I would say go for the lesser of two evils, not that I know anything about voting. I tend to agree with Irvine on participation...
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:14 AM   #12
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I think I'm the only person on this forum who thinks voting is essential, regardless. Not that I have much choice anyway But...I face this many times we have to go to our polls. It's especially gotten worse. I used to be impartial to Howard and the Liberals. He set me off with his bullshit GST and it's been on an exceptionally speedy decline ever since. I'm running out of dislike for him - it's virtually complete. Everything he and his ludicrous party does, gives me the shits now. Then we have the ALP. God help me. Our Labour party has never been in such dire circumstances that I can remember or at least in my voting years - or maybe I just didn't care so much 10 years ago. Our politics is as up and down as anyone else's, but this party is about fallen apart.
Anyone decent on their own merits will never make it. We will always have one or the other leading here. We pick the lesser of 2 evils. we have no choice. We have to rely on a shell of a party with nothing to get rid of the one man who is determined to fuck us all over.


Sorry, B'sS. I have nothing to offer, I just wanted to cry in your thread, lol.
Good luck with your election, though.
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:41 AM   #13
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most times we are voting for the lesser evil.


bigots and liars are leading one party


why anyone would not vote against their agenda is beyond me.


Does any 2000 Nader voter believe W has not been much worse than Gore would have been?
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




just to clarify -- i don't view voting as patriotic or unpatriotic. i think that the act of voting, because of all those who have died trying to get the right to vote not just in the US but around the world, is an act of respect as well as an act of faith in humanity and our ability to govern ourselves.

sorry to get sentimental.
Oh, I think voting is important. I'm not quite sure of the integrity of the voting process anymore. Sometimes I think I would have more faith in it if we were voting directly for some of the laws that are going to affect us (subject as the legislature is to the courts). (I know we are a reprensentative government and voting for the individual laws would be unwieldy, and there is the everpresent danger of the will of the majority trampling over the minority position. Besides that's what poll numbers are for )

On a local level, a couple of years ago, we finally threw out the county commissioners--after a little episode of officials using prisoners to do personal work for them I was kind of proud of the voters. However, turns out we got another duplitious jerk as head. Our state legislature (PA) voted themselves a huge payraise in the dead of the night and seem to be a little miffed at the protests going on about it. I think much of the problem is the voters themselves--constantly voting these people back into office. But then I see the futile feeling they must have when they vote somebody else in and it's the same thing.

I'm starting to see a growing anger and that's a healthy thing. Maybe if I can start to see voting as being more than a rubber stamp for the actions of two corrupted parties, then I can approach it with more hope.

I was once in your shoes, Irvine. Immensely sentimental (your word) about the whole process, the rights and privileges we have an obligation to uphold. I'm probably of a different mind than you are now (maybe). I don't believe politics (or politicians) on the whole can propel social change. But I believe working outside it can propel social change, which will then propel politics.
That's why we are desperately in need of a leader who is more than a politician.

Without vision, people will only vote their direct and immediate self-interest or their strict ideology (no matter the competency of the politician--either side). Or probably, vote for the person who is already in office, because that is the name they know. I've done all those things at some time or another.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
most times we are voting for the lesser evil.
bigots and liars are leading one party
why anyone would not vote against their agenda is beyond me.
Does any 2000 Nader voter believe W has not been much worse than Gore would have been?

That was always an interesting question for me. Does one vote for the lesser evil of the major parties when one believes in the leader of a third party? I'm not a huge Nader fan. I feel that his running in 2000 was a huge factor in Gore's ultimate defeat. But how can I be angry at someone who is voting for whom she or he believes is the best candidate? I was pissed at Nader running in 2004, but I signed a petition to allow him on the ballot, because I believed he deserved to be on the ballot, whether I wanted him there or not.

I'd love to see a viable third party, if only to keep the majors on their toes. But we don't get a viable third party unless enough people vote for it. But voting for the third party may mean the major party that leans more to your liking gets defeated. I don't know the answer to that one. But those voting for Nader voted their consciences. How would I ever argue with that? They chose not to vote for what they believed to be the lesser of two evils; they voted for whom they thought was the best. Of course, the country got screwed in the process.
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