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Old 11-29-2003, 09:02 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
The differences between Dreadsox´and my opinion are astonishing (there is a positive tradition).

I really distrust people who are proud of arresting reservists who fail to serve their country. Even if it´s their duty to arrest, sure; I know police officers, but they are not proud of arresting people. They just do it, beacuse it´s their job. When they can avoid to arrest someone, f.e. talk and resolve the situation, they do so. When they have to arrest someone, so be it. But they aren´t proud of it. I just distrust anyone who is proud of doing harm to others.

I ask myself what you get from of calling other´s crybabys, Dread. Generally (to make clear I´m not referring to you especially), people who have fun in displaying their power + strongly follow a certain mindfuck - american nationalism, in that case - are dangerous elements for a society. I fear those extreme people, maybe because of history. They also bore me when they´re pushing their agenda.

So, yeah, do we have any substantial input here except of bush is great bush is the best i´m really impressed no its a publicity stunt no he is a brave warrior oh look at him sharing that fucking turkey with an afroamerican oh look he even has tears in his eyes now see he always says the truth and is such a sensible person who just happens to like electric chairs bush is great bush is the best?
Hiphop-
I think your perspective would be different if you were raised in our country.
I think maybe mine and Dread's perspective would be different if we were raised in Euro.

I do know one thing we wouldnt be publicly 'mofoing' a world leader outside of our country.

DB9
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Old 11-29-2003, 03:15 PM   #62
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HIPHOP,

"So, yeah, do we have any substantial input here except of bush is great bush is the best i´m really impressed no its a publicity stunt no he is a brave warrior oh look at him sharing that fucking turkey with an afroamerican oh look he even has tears in his eyes now see he always says the truth and is such a sensible person who just happens to like electric chairs bush is great bush is the best?"

Sorry if this thread does not fit the typical FYM model that says that Bush is the Anti-Christ.
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Old 11-29-2003, 06:55 PM   #63
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Don't give me ideas Sting.
Just kidding.
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Old 11-29-2003, 08:40 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
[

Sorry if this thread does not fit the typical FYM model that says that Bush is the Anti-Christ. [/B]

why not , since his arrival , hell broke lose .
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Old 11-29-2003, 09:24 PM   #65
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It has been pointed out by NUMEROUS people that President Bush has not attended any of the funerals that have taken place since the war began......

President Clinton did not attend a SINGLE military funeral including:

18 U.S. Army Rangers killed in Somalia in 1993
19 U.S. airmen killed in the 1996 Khobar Towers barracks bombing
four soldiers dead in Haiti
17 Navy men and women killed in the 2000 attack on the USS Cole.

Not a SINGLE funeral. President Clinton did manage to make it to many campain donor's funerals however:

Larry Lawrence
The father fund-raiserand and later DNC chief Terry McAuliffe
Commerce Secretary Ron Brown
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Old 11-29-2003, 09:39 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
The differences between Dreadsox´and my opinion are astonishing (there is a positive tradition).

I really distrust people who are proud of arresting reservists who fail to serve their country. Even if it´s their duty to arrest, sure; I know police officers, but they are not proud of arresting people. They just do it, beacuse it´s their job. When they can avoid to arrest someone, f.e. talk and resolve the situation, they do so. When they have to arrest someone, so be it. But they aren´t proud of it. I just distrust anyone who is proud of doing harm to others.

Doing harm to others? Obviously these people were breaking the law, thus doing harm to others. Therefore it's not up to the cops to talk to them and let them go, it's their frekin' job to arrest them and let the courts figure out their punishment. The criminals are not the victims!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-29-2003, 09:40 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by WinnieThePoo



why not , since his arrival , hell broke lose .
Uh, I think 9/11 kind of started all this. And I think Bush had nothing to do with 9/11.
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Old 11-29-2003, 10:30 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23


Doing harm to others? Obviously these people were breaking the law, thus doing harm to others. Therefore it's not up to the cops to talk to them and let them go, it's their frekin' job to arrest them and let the courts figure out their punishment. The criminals are not the victims!!!!!!!!
Thanks Wolwill! Amazing to think that someone can get their student loans repayed, collect paychecks, get insurance, get free tuition, and be eligible for a pension.....for a job they VOLUNTEERED for...that sudennly they no longer wish to serve when their country calls upon them to serve during wartime.

And you are correct....arrest them and let the courst figure it out.
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Old 11-29-2003, 11:23 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
It has been pointed out by NUMEROUS people that President Bush has not attended any of the funerals that have taken place since the war began......

President Clinton did not attend a SINGLE military funeral including:

18 U.S. Army Rangers killed in Somalia in 1993
19 U.S. airmen killed in the 1996 Khobar Towers barracks bombing
four soldiers dead in Haiti
17 Navy men and women killed in the 2000 attack on the USS Cole.

Not a SINGLE funeral. President Clinton did manage to make it to many campain donor's funerals however:

Larry Lawrence
The father fund-raiserand and later DNC chief Terry McAuliffe
Commerce Secretary Ron Brown
So automatically we go to Clinton. I will never understand this form of debate tactic.
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Old 11-29-2003, 11:47 PM   #70
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Why is it always incumbent on us.....the so called conservatives to come up with actual facts and figures in this forum.

Fine....

Show me facts and figured from any other war that would indicate that this administration is somehow any different than any other in its practices.

I have shown how the present administration is no different than President Clinton...who managed to attend FUNDRAISERS FUNERALS while missing the funerals of 18 Rangers sent to their deaths in Somalia arguably because the administration DID NOT equipt them properly.

Or how about the 4 soldiers President Clinton sent to their deaths spreading Democracy in Hati. Where was this President that he installed in Hati while they were dying? He was enjoying tea and crupets in the cosy confines of the Ritz-Carlton Boston, safe and sound. How do I know? I was helping provide security for him. Did President Clinton attend their funerals? No?


I gave Facts...and you get ruffled because I compare these situations to Clinton.....Want to bet that I could compare it to almost Every sitting President of the past 50 years and come up with statisticaly almost the same result.

I will leave it up to you. Clinton was the easiest for me to research.
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:02 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Why is it always incumbent on us.....the so called conservatives to come up with actual facts and figures in this forum.

Fine....

Show me facts and figured from any other war that would indicate that this administration is somehow any different than any other in its practices.

I have shown how the present administration is no different than President Clinton...who managed to attend FUNDRAISERS FUNERALS while missing the funerals of 18 Rangers sent to their deaths in Somalia arguably because the administration DID NOT equipt them properly.

Or the 4 soldiers sent to the deaths spreading Democracy in Hati.


I gave Facts...and you get ruffled because I compare it to Clinton.....Want to bet that I could compare it to almost Every sitting President of the past 50 years and come up with statisticaly almost the same result.

I will leave it up to you. Clinton was the easiest for me to research.
No, I see what you're saying. It probably isn't any different than any other administration. I just never get the if you don't like Bush you must like Clinton tactic, but I see that that's not exactly what you were doing.

But I do remember an article in FYM recently that stated the differences of a few previous administrations and the current when it came to memorial services. But I'm too exhausted to make that search right now.
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:03 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But I'm too exhausted to make that search right now.
I can relate....my problem is...after almost seven weeks of feeling like Rush Limbaugh taking pain killers...I am off them...hehe look out!!!!


Peace Brother!
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:23 AM   #73
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Family comforted by Bush, but differences remain
By SCOTT WILLIAMS
swilliams@journalsentinel.com
Last Updated: Nov. 25, 2003
Brookfield - A visit with President Bush brought comfort to family members of fallen U.S. soldier Mathew Schram, but it did not mend their differences about the war in Iraq.

Presidential Meeting


Matthew Schram, 36, of Brookfield and a major in the Army, became the second Wisconsin soldier to die in Iraq when his convoy was ambushed by gunmen May 26 northwest of Baghdad.


It was awe-inspiring. It was the right thing to
do.


The Brookfield soldier's father and stepmother and four of his siblings met Monday with Bush during a ceremony in which the president paid tribute to several U.S. servicemen and servicewomen killed in Iraq.

Schram, 36, a major in the Army, became the second Wisconsin soldier to die in Iraq when his convoy was ambushed by gunmen May 26 northwest of Baghdad.

Family members said they were impressed by Bush's face-to-face contact with grieving relatives during Monday's ceremony at Fort Carson, Colo., the Army base where Schram was assigned.

"It was awe-inspiring," said Susan Kuske of Brookfield, a sister of Schram. "It was the right thing to do."

After having lunch with soldiers and addressing relatives flown to Fort Carson by the federal government, Bush met privately with the Schram family and others away from the news media.

He exchanged hugs with the relatives, signed autographs and offered comforting words.

Earl Schram of Sister Bay, Mathew Schram's father, said President Bush spent about five minutes talking with the Schram family. "He was very emotional. He said he felt our grief," Earl Schram said. "He was very kind to us. He gave my wife a little kiss."

Despite losing his son, Earl Schram said most of his family supports the U.S. effort in Iraq. "Our family will stay the course. We hope we don't turn around and go out of there," he said of Iraq.

But Robert Schram of Milwaukee, a brother of Mathew Schram, said the experience did not change his feelings that the U.S. military mission in Iraq is wrong.

"I don't dislike the president, by any means," Schram said. "I just dislike the war."

Mathew Schram, who graduated from Brookfield Central High School in 1985, is buried in Highland Memorial Park cemetery in New Berlin.

Gov. Jim Doyle attended Mathew Schram's funeral in June and declared the fallen Waukesha County soldier "the best Wisconsin has to offer."

Also in attendance Monday in Colorado were Schram's stepmother, Audrey Schram, and two other brothers, Phillip Schram of Hartland and David Schram of Hales Corners. One sister, Carol Barr of Pewaukee, was unable to make the trip.

Kuske, who said she supports Bush on the war, said the president autographed a small American flag for her and hugged her. He assured family members of several soldiers that their loved ones died for a worthy cause and that the United States would prevail in Iraq.

Kuske said she had never been to an Army base before and was intrigued to see where Mathew had served.

"I'm very proud of my brother," she said.

Despite his misgivings about the war, Robert Schram agreed that Bush's personal attention was thoughtful.

"He didn't have to do that," Schram said. "And he did seem genuine."

Mike Johnson of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:36 AM   #74
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I have found another site that indicates President Clinton did attend the USS COLE Ceremony but NOT the Funerals. This site lists from LBJ the Funerals that were attended by all of the Presidents through Clinton. It is not a very long list given the amount of servicemen and women lost.



http://hnn.us/articles/1784.html
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Old 12-01-2003, 02:05 AM   #75
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From the History News Network

Lyndon Baines Johnson - According to the Johnson Library, LBJ attended two funerals for soldiers who died during the Vietnam War. The first funeral was for Captain Albert Smith, son of White House correspondent Merriman Smith, which was held February 28, 1966. The second was for Major General Keith R. Ware, held September 17, 1968. LBJ had met Ware while visiting Vietnam.

Richard Nixon - Richard Nixon does not appear to have attended the funerals of any soldiers killed in Vietnam. He did award posthumous medals of honor to the families of several soldiers on 22 April 1971 and on several other occasions. On Veterans day in 1971 he visited the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington Cemetery. In 1973 he met with the family of Colonel William Nolde after the colonel was buried in Arlington Cemetery. Colonel Nolde was killed on January 27th, the night before the cease-fire went into effect.

Jimmy Carter - According to the New York Times, Jimmy Carter attended a memorial service for the soldiers killed in the failed rescue of America hostages in Iran in 1980.

Ronald Reagan - Ronald Reagan attended memorial services on several occasions for American soldiers. In 1983 he attended a service at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, in connection with the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, which cost the lives of 241 people. In 1987 he attended a service at Mayport Naval Station in Florida for the sailors killed on the USS Stark.

George H.W. Bush - President George Herbert Walker Bush does not appear to have attended any funerals for American soldiers. (The NYT, citing Marlin Fitzwater as a source, indicated that the president did attend several such funerals. But no details were provided.)

Bill Clinton - Bill Clinton attended a service in October 2000 in memory of the 17 sailors killed in the attack on the USS Cole.

After the terrorist bombing the Murrah building in downtown Oklahoma City he publicly grieved with the families of the victims at an event that was regarded at the time as a turning point in his presidency.
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