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Old 11-28-2003, 03:09 AM   #46
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Old 11-28-2003, 03:16 AM   #47
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Cool! PR stunts rock!!!

I'm sure a large part of his reason for going was 'for the troops' but if you don't think that it's also for the reaction from the media and public as well (and probably more so) then you are a monkey.
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Old 11-28-2003, 09:11 AM   #48
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good for him. as many others have said, of course its a political move but it is hard to argue this is a negative one. everything the man does is a political move-he is the u.s. president a little more than 11 months away from an election.

i wanna know the following
why doesnt he go to a funeral of one of those same soldiers he supports who have lost their lives?
there wont be turkey, but some might appreciate that.
or does he not want to be so explicitly linked to loss of life?

thats a political move too. no dinner involved though.
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Old 11-28-2003, 09:35 AM   #49
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The man's a rock star.
Judging by the reaction of the troops, eye witness accounts by the press corp, the coverage on C-SPAN, the troops adored him.

I heard a very stuffy liberal reporter from Time Magizine on C-SPAN go on and on how a state of euphoria erupted and how the soilders embraced and loved him so. She even had the courage to admit what she witnessed.

If you had a chance to see the coverage on CSPAN some would be forced to change their opinion. Still others would ignore this, remain in their bent mental states reading and posting in their insipid angry blogs.


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Old 11-28-2003, 09:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep




Too bad you were not around to arrest W when he failed to HONOR his military commitment.

Do you have any proof that Bush did not honor his military contract? I would like to see it?
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Old 11-28-2003, 09:40 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by TylerDurden
Cool! PR stunts rock!!!

I'm sure a large part of his reason for going was 'for the troops' but if you don't think that it's also for the reaction from the media and public as well (and probably more so) then you are a monkey.

Give me an example of a President flying into a hot zone before? If I am not mistaken there was a plane hit with surface to air missles within the past week flying into the same airport. This was about the troops. If it were about the press, they would have brought more press with them.
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Old 11-28-2003, 09:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox



Give me an example of a President flying into a hot zone before? If I am not mistaken there was a plane hit with surface to air missles within the past week flying into the same airport. This was about the troops. If it were about the press, they would have brought more press with them.
Great post Dread.

As far as meeting w/survivors of dead soilders families, President Bush has many many times privately.
He has prayed w them, embraced them, thanked them, held them, consoled them, and cried w/them.
He has chose to keep those moments private, as he should.


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Old 11-28-2003, 10:10 AM   #53
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[Q]Some Understand Covert Journey; Others Fear Bad Precedent

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 28, 2003; Page A44


Although the White House lied to much of the press to conceal President Bush's Thanksgiving visit to Baghdad, many journalists and analysts yesterday were willing to give the administration a pass.



"In this case, it's justified," said Bob Schieffer, CBS's chief Washington correspondent. "It was extremely important for the president to demonstrate that he's willing to go where those young men and women he sent over there have gone." If the reporters "were going with a military operation in Baghdad, they'd keep it off the record."

But Philip Taubman, Washington bureau chief of the New York Times, said that "in this day and age, there should have been a way to take more reporters. People are perfectly capable of maintaining a confidence for security reasons. It's a bad precedent." Once White House officials "decided to do a stealth trip, they bought into a whole series of things that are questionable."

Tom Rosenstiel, director of the Project for Excellence in Journalism, criticized the White House correspondents who made the trip without spilling the secret. "That's just not kosher," he said. "Reporters are in the business of telling the truth. They can't decide it's okay to lie sometimes because it serves a larger truth or good cause."

The deception was so complete that White House officials had not only said the president would be spending the holiday in Crawford, Tex., but they also announced a free-range turkey menu. The Associated Press carried a report Wednesday, based on a "senior administration official," that while in Crawford, "President Bush will spend part of his Thanksgiving Day calling soldiers to express his and the nation's gratitude for their service in Iraq."

Although journalists routinely keep secret details of military operations, as they did during the war in Iraq, it is highly unusual for them not to reveal a major presidential trip overseas.

Former White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, who worked for President Bill Clinton, said: "There's no way to do this kind of trip if it's broadcast in advance, for security reasons. My problem with this is not that he misled the press. This is a president who has been unwilling to provide his presence to the families who have suffered but thinks nothing of flying to Baghdad to use the troops there as a prop."

But Jonah Goldberg, editor-at-large of National Review Online, called the trip "a political masterstroke," saying: "This wasn't lying about an 18-minute gap on a tape or lying under oath. If they had announced the trip and there were attacks and people had died, everyone would be screaming bloody murder about how Bush put people in harm's way. I'm sure the press corps has their dresses over their head about it, but I sincerely doubt anyone in the real America will have any concern about it whatsoever."

Rosenstiel, however, said the trip "was much bigger news on a slow news day if it was unexpected. What reporters have done by going along with this is to help Bush politically."

The 13 pool correspondents summoned for the trip included Jim Angle of Fox News, the AP's Terence Hunt, Mike Allen of The Washington Post, Richard Keil of Bloomberg News, a Reuters reporter and photographers from Time, Newsweek and three wire services.

The White House uses a rotating system for a pool that includes newspaper, wire-service and television reporters when the president travels, but even news executives were uncertain yesterday whether the standard procedures had been followed.

Mike Abramowitz, The Post's national editor, said Allen did not tell his editors of the Baghdad trip in advance. "I'm glad Mike was on the plane. He had a great file," Abramowitz said. But, he added, "I am concerned that no one on the desk knew where a White House reporter was."

Kim Hume, Fox's Washington bureau chief, who knew that Angle was going, said White House officials "obviously made a decision that this was more important than the flak they were going to take from it." She said the administration took a network pool crew, as it was supposed to, and "we didn't get any competitive advantage from it." Had more journalists been told, Hume said, "the story would have leaked in about two seconds" because "news people are the biggest gossips alive."

Kathryn Kross, CNN's Washington bureau chief, said a two-person crew from her network was dismissed from the White House pool Wednesday, with the understanding that no further news would be made. "We're all for the president boosting the troops however the White House feels is appropriate," she said. "But apparently the White House put together its own group of people to accompany the president on this trip, and we're real interested to learn their reasons for doing that."

The surprise visit produced upbeat, sometimes gushing coverage on the cable networks, which kept rerunning video of Bush with a turkey platter and his pep talk to the troops. "This is a show of power. . . . This has significance in terms of showing the power of the presidency," Fox anchor David Asman said.

Time's Vivian Walt said on CNN that "an electric shock went through the room" and that for Bush, crying and trembling, it was "a taste of victory."

The message, retired Col. Ken Allard said on MSNBC, is that "you underestimate George Bush at your peril. It was a gutsy call, a Hail Mary pass, and he pulled it off."

Past official deceptions have tended to involve military matters. In 1983, then-White House spokesman Larry Speakes told a reporter a day before the United States invaded Grenada that the idea was "preposterous."

Howard Kurtz hosts CNN's weekly media program.
[/Q]
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Old 11-28-2003, 10:23 AM   #54
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there is good and there is bad

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Great post Dread.

He has prayed w them, embraced them, thanked them, held them, consoled them, and cried w/them.
He has chose to keep those moments private, as he should.


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thats beautiful. it really is.
but in the same way he is willing parachute into iraq for a very public turkey dinner (i understand it was all low key. very well planned. but dont discount the media effect. the reaction which has come from the networks was expected im sure. wolf blitzer was practically peeing his pants with glee yesterday afternoon while talking about the president) he should be able to acknowledge those deaths publicly. not in a questionless press conference, but by attending a funeral. i believe such an event is not without precedent for commander in chiefs during war time.
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Old 11-28-2003, 10:45 AM   #55
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I was just thinking that one thing that made Rudy Giuliano so effective as a leader after 9/11 was going to funerals. He didn't make a big deal out of this, he just treated it as part of his job. My sisters in NYC hadn't liked Giuliano before but after he did all of this stuff they thought he was one heck of a spiff leader. I know GWB would never want me as an advisor but it would definitely enhance his leadership role. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-28-2003, 12:01 PM   #56
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Re: there is good and there is bad

Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


he should be able to acknowledge those deaths publicly. not in a questionless press conference, but by attending a funeral. i believe such an event is not without precedent for commander in chiefs during war time.

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Old 11-28-2003, 12:19 PM   #57
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"Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living."
--Mary Harris "Mother" Jones (1830-1930)
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Old 11-28-2003, 02:11 PM   #58
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List of Presidential Trips to War Zones
Thu Nov 27, 2:51 PM ET Add White House - AP to My Yahoo!


By The Associated Press

Past presidential trips to war zones include:



_ 1952: Dwight David Eisenhower, then president-elect, visited Korean battle fronts in December.


_ 1966 and 1967: President Lyndon Johnson made two wartime trips to Vietnam, visiting troops at the U.S. military command at Cam Ranh Bay.


_ 1969: President Richard Nixon visited troops at Dian about 12 miles south of what was then known as Saigon.


_ 1990: President George H.W. Bush visited U.S. troops at a desert outpost in Saudi Arabia on Thanksgiving Day, in the run-up to the Gulf War (news - web sites).


_ 1999: President Bill Clinton (news - web sites) addressed Kosovar refugees and NATO (news - web sites) military personnel in Macedonia, two weeks after end of NATO airstrikes to drive Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic (news - web sites) out of Kosovo. Five months later he addressed Albanians and shared a Thanksgiving dinner with U.S. troops in Kosovo.


_ 2003: President Bush (news - web sites) pays a Thanksgiving Day visit to U.S. soldiers in a mess hall at Baghdad International Airport
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Old 11-29-2003, 01:35 AM   #59
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The differences between Dreadsox´and my opinion are astonishing (there is a positive tradition).

I really distrust people who are proud of arresting reservists who fail to serve their country. Even if it´s their duty to arrest, sure; I know police officers, but they are not proud of arresting people. They just do it, beacuse it´s their job. When they can avoid to arrest someone, f.e. talk and resolve the situation, they do so. When they have to arrest someone, so be it. But they aren´t proud of it. I just distrust anyone who is proud of doing harm to others.

I ask myself what you get from of calling other´s crybabys, Dread. Generally (to make clear I´m not referring to you especially), people who have fun in displaying their power + strongly follow a certain mindfuck - american nationalism, in that case - are dangerous elements for a society. I fear those extreme people, maybe because of history. They also bore me when they´re pushing their agenda.

So, yeah, do we have any substantial input here except of bush is great bush is the best i´m really impressed no its a publicity stunt no he is a brave warrior oh look at him sharing that fucking turkey with an afroamerican oh look he even has tears in his eyes now see he always says the truth and is such a sensible person who just happens to like electric chairs bush is great bush is the best?
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Old 11-29-2003, 08:11 AM   #60
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Yeah...but you are not talking about me specifically....if this last post was not thee biggest personal attack on me, then I do not know what to think. Come on out and call my a Facist....LOL



First of all...(and I do not mean you specifically) who ever wrote that must not understand what I typed.

I clearly stated that I am sick and tired of person that I served with and met during MY OWN EXPERIENCE in the reserves that signed up for all of the BENEFITS of peacetime. Then when they were asked to serve their country during WARTIME they did not want to go. So yes I got great PLEASURE out of doing MY JOB because they were not the kind of soldiers i wanted next to me in the first place. They were poeple without INTEGRITY and HONOR.

Now the next time you(and I am not talking about you specifically HIPHOP) want to imply that I am a Nationalist Facisist, whatever, please read the post or PM me.


Thanks.
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