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Old 09-02-2004, 02:41 PM   #1
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Where is the Zell Miller talk?

I thought it was interesting no one has mentioned this speech. This being a primarily liberal forum, what are your thoughts on a Democrat saying the things he said last night? Do you feel betrayed?

Personally, I think he has some serious b@lls to say some of the things he said. But it was beautiful none the less.

Zell, brought up some interesting topics that have not yet been talked about very much...Kerry's Senate record.

Here is a transcript of his speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...xt_1&printer=1
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Old 09-02-2004, 02:58 PM   #2
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I didn't see the speech or read the transcript, but I don't feel "betrayed" at all-good for him for standing up for his beliefs.

Obviously the GOP "used" him very well (just like the Democrats "used" Ron Reagan), but he's a grown man and knows that I'm sure.
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Old 09-02-2004, 03:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I didn't see the speech or read the transcript, but I don't feel "betrayed" at all-good for him for standing up for his beliefs.

Obviously the GOP "used" him very well (just like the Democrats "used" Ron Reagan), but he's a grown man and knows that I'm sure.
I agree. Maybe betrayed was a bad choice of words. But, I think bi-partisan politics is bad for the country. There are 2 political parties, and many different points of view. I comment him for standing up for what he believes in and would do the same if it were a Republican at the DNC.

BTW, Ron Reagan is a Independent who has a cause. He was there by choice, the DNC welcomed him with open arms. I don't thing they used him, nor do I feel the GOP used Zell.
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Old 09-02-2004, 03:18 PM   #4
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I think Zell had a very moving, almost convincing speech but it should have been vetted more carefully IMO. He got torn apart to a degree by CNN and supposedly by Chris Matthews, when he was interviewed -post speech. Also many contradictory talking points are already on the internet which sort of make his speech not as effective. Also, he didn't answer back, quite well when he was called out by CNN and MSNBC. He should have been more prepared to spin his responses or give more information on why he mentioned/ made particular statements.

However, it was a powerful speech and very charismatic (I was thinking it would suck). If you are on the fence and superficially following the election, I can see people jumping on the Bush bandwagon.

The RNC is actually pretty effective IMO and I can actually see a good bounce for Bush but it all depends on how Bush's speech comes out this Thursday.
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Old 09-02-2004, 03:57 PM   #5
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There is a certain amount of the GOP base that loves a bigot.

Zell was trotted out for them.
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Old 09-02-2004, 04:17 PM   #6
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Really? I thought Miller campaigned to try to remove the rebel flag from the Georgia flag as well as saying...

"I would put my record on civil rights up against anyone's. As Georgia's governor, I named more African-Americans to state boards than any Georgia governor, and I named more African-Americans to judgeships than all previous governors combined. I named an African-American female as the first to serve on the Georgia Supreme Court. I also appointed an African-American as state Attorney General, the first one in the nation at the time."

Its probably his stance on gay marriage though that has you using ad hominems...
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:07 PM   #7
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Yes, I know Ron Reagan is an Independent and was there for stem cell research, but you have to admit, having the son of a Republican icon at the Democratic convention is a coup

And if you've ever read any of his comments on Bush, well...
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:15 PM   #8
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I don't think using Ron Regan was as much of a coup as the Repubs using Zell Miller. I also think the end results from using Zell Miller will be much greater. His speech was somewhat entertaining, his "position" as a democrat and former keynote speaker of a Democratic National Convention intriguing, and just the "anger"/ energy he displayed was something to talk about. Depending on your point of view, sort of like watching a car accident or witnessing a last second shot in a tie game type of moment.

Ron Reagan is pretty liberal from what I understand, and that just takes away from the effect of having a Reagan speak at a convention, especially since Ron has been at odds with his family.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:17 PM   #9
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from CNN...

"Ron Reagan, a self-described liberal whose political views were often at odds with his conservative Republican father, has said publicly that he does not support President Bush's re-election."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...gan.democrats/
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:22 PM   #10
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Apart from bringing up the Kerry's Senate record (to an extend), the way he brought it was more impressive than the actual contents. References to other conflicts and past presidents are really getting old. Actuallly, this entire election is getting old. Doesn't anybody in this circus know anything to talk about that didn't happen 20+ years ago?
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Old 09-02-2004, 08:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
There is a certain amount of the GOP base that loves a bigot.

Zell was trotted out for them.
And we hear complaints about how the "Bush camp" smears Kerry's name......
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Old 09-02-2004, 10:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
Apart from bringing up the Kerry's Senate record (to an extend), the way he brought it was more impressive than the actual contents. References to other conflicts and past presidents are really getting old. Actuallly, this entire election is getting old. Doesn't anybody in this circus know anything to talk about that didn't happen 20+ years ago?
The 1991 Gulf War was not 20 plus years ago, neither was Senator Kerry's vote against 87 Billion dollars in funding for troops and the development of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Old 09-03-2004, 05:42 AM   #13
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But Sting, he voted for it before he voted against it - that makes it alright
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Old 09-03-2004, 09:00 AM   #14
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Zell's a bit wacky

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...46_questioner/

Sorry, I don't have time to find a source-maybe it's on the CNN website, but this is an interesting letter to the editor..

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...nt_hold_water/

But it doesn't hold water
September 3, 2004

ZELL MILLER'S personal attacks on John Kerry at the RNC were not only mean-spirited; they were filled with falsehoods. CNN analysts Jeff Greenfield, Wolf Blitzer, and Judy Woodruff raised several key points that rebutted Miller's charges:

(1) Dick Cheney voted against funding for the same weapons systems Kerry voted against because the Cold War was over.

(2) Miller derided Kerry for calling our presence in Iraq an occupation; Bush has called Iraq an "occupation" on four occasions.

(3) Miller criticized Kerry as an ineffective, antimilitary senator. But Miller praised Kerry in a 2001 speech, noting: "Early in his career . . . John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit reduction bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so. John has worked to strengthen our military."
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:04 AM   #15
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http://slate.msn.com/id/2106119/
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