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Old 05-09-2004, 06:55 PM   #16
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Im pleased this thread has gone the way it has. I initally read it when it was just Dread and it sent a shiver up my spine.

Dread seems to be in the minority, which in my opinion, is a good thing.

I thought this thread was going to be about why Rumsfeld (sp?) hasnt quit and appears to only be apologising for the fact that the issue has made its way into the media rather than the issue itself.

Thats how the US is being portrayed in the media in Australia anyway.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:23 PM   #17
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We supposedly went in there to stop torture, not to inflict it. The very least the media could do is to show us what these people are doing. The very fact that this was done by Americans.........I could scream. Like I said I feel terrible for the many decent soldiers who didn't do anything wrong, and have, in fact done much that's right. This is an unbelievably fd up state of affairs.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Im pleased this thread has gone the way it has. I initally read it when it was just Dread and it sent a shiver up my spine.

Dread seems to be in the minority, which in my opinion, is a good thing.

I thought this thread was going to be about why Rumsfeld (sp?) hasnt quit and appears to only be apologising for the fact that the issue has made its way into the media rather than the issue itself.

Thats how the US is being portrayed in the media in Australia anyway.
Please help me out here.....

Where did I say I agreed with Lieberman on this issue? I started a thread iwth his quote...and I never said I agreed with it.

If you are going to accuse me of having an opinion on an issue, please quote me to back it up.

Thanks....I made my comments about the issue in the other thread. I felt Lieberman's comments deserved its own thread.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:43 PM   #19
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My apologies.

Just curious - Why did you want to start a thread with something internationally offensive without stating your opinion?

PS I have no idea who Lieberman is. He doesnt crack a mention here.

PPS If the other thread you mention is the one with pictures in it, I didnt get very far before I left. I cant bare to look at images like that.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:45 PM   #20
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The Lieberman Quote is another attempt to lump the 9/11 issues that we have with Extremists with Iraq.

I freaking teach daily, two wrongs do not make a right to 8 and 9 year olds. Mr. Lieberman must have missed that lesson.

The US should apologize because we are supposed to be better and behave better because we have taken a position of leadership.

I am so sick to my stomach over this, and it matters not to me how many soldiers participated in this. It is irrelevant.

Clouding the issue by listing all of the good we have done is not the correct response.

Having read the report, I believe the words SYSTEMIC were used by the investigating general. That does not mean a few soldiers.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:47 PM   #21
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Originally posted by beli
My apologies.

Just curious - Why did you want to start a thread with something internationally offensive without stating your opinion?

PS I have no idea who Lieberman is. He doesnt crack a mention here.

PPS If the other thread you mention is the one with pictures in it, I didnt get very far before I left. I cant bare to look at images like that.
Well, I would have posted the entire article, but we have rules to follow about quoting entire articles. That is why I posted a link to the article.

I did not thing I had to state my opinion. Do all discussions have to begin with an opinion?
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:51 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

I did not thing I had to state my opinion. Do all discussions have to begin with an opinion?
No, I guess not. I dont want to get into a war of words over this.

I dont understand your motives, and you probably dont understand me either, so we shall just leave it at that.

peace.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:54 PM   #23
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peace...although I am puzzled that this is a war of words....but fine....lets let it go.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:58 PM   #24
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Sting, I do agree there is NOT enough coverage of the positive things.....yet...I do not know how you can tell someone in Iraq that we are good people when we, the occupiers begin to behave so badly. And I agree with you that we have done more good than is recognized, but one thing I know is that people remember the first and last impressions. I would add that people remember the best and the worst about others people.

While people can remember the good, this stain will also be upon us.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:39 AM   #25
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That's what the media does. Have you seen media coverage of rally, of course they're going to focus on the 10 that's what the general public salivate over.

Why are you looking to the media for education? It is not the responsibility of the media to educate us on foreign policies. Educate yourself. Quit blaming the media.
Did I ever say I was looking to the media for education? Did I say it was the responsibility of the media to educate us on foreign policies?

I said it was the responsibility of the media to report balanced and objective news.

As long as the media continue to not be balanced and objective in what they present, I'm going to point that very fact out.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:49 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Klaus
STING2:
Remember what we thought about iraqis when we saw reports on TV that Jessica Lynch was eventually raped.
We thought "what barbars can do this to POWs", why should we think different about western soldiers who torture or rape Prisionors?

Of course it was not done by all Soldiers (thank god!) but many people believed the US boys could never do something like that. Now, where they have to face the facts, some of them start to think that maybe not everything they hear at home about the brave and honest US soldiers on one side and the hussein loyalists and al-quaida members on the other side is true too.
Again, tell me of a country, military, organization, that has never had people commit abuse.

There are 200,000 coalition military and civilians working hard to develop Iraq. The actions of a few dozen people are not representive of Coalition policy and efforts in Iraq. The Media have already failed in to report much the work the coalition is doing and now they are helping to create a false image of the coalition by not balancing the coverage of the entire situation in Iraq and focusing overwhelmingly on a scandel involving a few dozen people.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:52 AM   #27
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Originally posted by verte76
We supposedly went in there to stop torture, not to inflict it. The very least the media could do is to show us what these people are doing. The very fact that this was done by Americans.........I could scream. Like I said I feel terrible for the many decent soldiers who didn't do anything wrong, and have, in fact done much that's right. This is an unbelievably fd up state of affairs.
The very least the media could do is present a balanced view of the situation in Iraq instead of simply reporting scandals such as this. Of course they should and must report, by why do that at the expense of everything else that is going on in Iraq. Again, the actions of 200,000 people vs. a few dozen.
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:08 AM   #28
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Sting, I do agree there is NOT enough coverage of the positive things.....yet...I do not know how you can tell someone in Iraq that we are good people when we, the occupiers begin to behave so badly. And I agree with you that we have done more good than is recognized, but one thing I know is that people remember the first and last impressions. I would add that people remember the best and the worst about others people.

While people can remember the good, this stain will also be upon us.
Why is it that the actions of a few dozen people are now suddenly representive of the actions of 200,000 people in Iraq? That does not make sense at all.

If you don't think its a few dozen people, please tell me specifically how many you think it is. Compare that to the total number of people working for the coalition under difficult conditions at the moment.

How can you judge the entire occupation based simply on the actions of a few dozen people and then declare that the occupiers behave so badly?

The United States is going to spend 60 Billion dollars in Iraq this year alone to secure it and make it a better place. Men and Women from all across the United States and other countries are risking their lives to make the lives of Iraqi citizens better.

Opinion polls of Iraqi's have already shown that the majority say their lives are better now than before the war. The Majority want coalition forces to remain in the country.

Unforunately, where most people get their first and last impressions is the media. The media is failing to balance their reporting by focusing all their time on this particular incident and failing to report all the other things that are going on in Iraq.

The majority of US troops that have come home from serving in Iraq specifically say the image that the media gives on the situation in Iraq is not the Iraq they experienced.


In any organization or group, there are bad apples who do bad things, but it is simply wrong to begin to say in various ways that those actions are now representive of the group as a whole and all the people in it.

Again, think about it this way, the actions of 200,000 people working for the coalition vs. the actions of a few dozen people. Which is more representive of the coalition's efforts in Iraq and which deserves the majority of the news coverage?
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:50 AM   #29
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I don't understand why people expect the media to evenly portray good and bad events in Iraq. Think about local media coverage in your town. Top stories are usually crime reports, murders, shootings, etc. Then maybe a little about local politics, and then maybe a "feel good" story about a local high school athlete, or something. Now, the majority of people in your city were not involved in violent crimes, but that doesn't stop the media from reporting them more prominently than positive news stories. What kind of news is more representitive of what's going on in your commuinty -- shootings and stabbings or the hundreds of "feel good" type stories that never get any airtime? And which deserve the majority of the news coverage? The fact of the matter is that the media NEVER take an even-handed stance on positive and negitive news items. Why hold them to a different standard in their reporting on Iraq?
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Again, tell me of a country, military, organization, that has never had people commit abuse.
And that's exactly the reason why i don't like the idea to spread Democracy with weapons.
Also many people didn't believe that "their boys" could do masacres, it's only the army who dosn't have the possibliity who never tortures and abuses people.

By the way, do you think it's enough that "soldiers" like them are just thrown out of the army?

Klaus
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